B16B stroked to 1.8 with TODA parts...


jugbugz said:
Great advice, I AM keen on saving money...:thanks:

Yeh, I don't think forged pistons are not worth the $$ and I just want to raise the compression to suit the cams.

when you say 2 layer head gasket, what do you mean? how many mm thick?

I've got quite a few choices here and the 81.25mm pistons kit is around 450. Flat face valves is a good idea but I don't have access to them in AUS... do you sell them? How much are they?:thanks::thanks:
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2 layer headgasket like spoon, buddyclub, or mugen about .45mm. i can get the skunk2 high compression valves, but this is why i hat NA cause then you have to get valve springs and retainers and cost just jumps right up! im gonna ask manos to comment on here cuase he already has cams.

keep in mind if you go with 81.25 you have to bore and hone the block, i also suggest ARP headstuds.
 
blinx9900 said:
2 layer headgasket like spoon, buddyclub, or mugen about .45mm. i can get the skunk2 high compression valves, but this is why i hat NA cause then you have to get valve springs and retainers and cost just jumps right up! im gonna ask manos to comment on here cuase he already has cams.

keep in mind if you go with 81.25 you have to bore and hone the block, i also suggest ARP headstuds.
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You are asking the right person :) I'm also always interested in keeping the cost down when going for mods....... :nice: Well, I have to say that I did not touch pistons, rings......or valves. Kept them stock. Here is what Ive done to the engine and to increase compression:
Skunk2 Stage 2 cams
>> valvesprings & retainers
>> 68mm Throttle body
>> cam gears
Buddy Club double layer thin gasket.
Port & polish(nearly $600 I had to pay for this using a computer for accuracy)
And of course feeding the car with more fuel to raise compression using a Apexi V-AFC :angry: Not recommended. Ive ordered an Apexi Power FC the last week and I'm planning to install it on September.
Btw, the port and polish I did is supposed to produce power until 225bhp :D
Also, with the Power FC, all my mods, especially the camshafts and the head work will work better...........I'm sure that the V-AFC has created a mess under the hood! :(
What I said was the necessary modifications to get some power and raise compression. I consider stock B16B pistons, valves, even intake manifold adequate for this purpose, but if you want to go for extreme compression, then you need additional upgrades. I have paid $300 deposit for the Apexi Power FC, and the rest $600 when I get it. Also, $300 for the Buddy club gasket.
Take a look at the official website of Skunk2 Racing to see how much I paid for the rest of the parts mentioned above! Unlike to some others, they are not ripping off their customers!! :nice:
www.Skunk2.com
 
Manos! 225bhp is a lot of fun in a small car eh. Not many have the funds for a build so they are forced to do it in stages, which unfortunately always costs more, but if you are obsessed with whatever car you own, you do what you can. Nice mods there Manos, I will be taking a similar route using the Skunk stuff, not as cheap in the UK tho lol.
 
after thinking about it a lot i think its best if you want to raise compression to just mill the head .020 and get the thin headgasket, that alone will raise you to 11.8 and then as manos says valvesprings and retainers. keep the stock valves and pistons. you might need new rings though since your compression numbers are a little low.
 
thanks guys! :nice:

theres lots of work and combos to think of huh? wont be easy here with the mech and tuners here :( so im gonna need lots of advice from u guys, hope everyone can help :thankyou: :nice:

manos: ive got power fc coming in this week :D so basically youve just got the thinner gasket and pp to promote ur compression, wud u think pp is necessary? i hope i can get it done. sounds like we both on similar paths ;) u staying with 1.6?

blinx, sounds great! wat do u think about pp?
 
sorry guys cant type much becoz im using my PSP :angry: lol its so hard to type. need my comp back.
 
jugbugz said:
thanks guys! :nice:

theres lots of work and combos to think of huh? wont be easy here with the mech and tuners here :( so im gonna need lots of advice from u guys, hope everyone can help :thankyou: :nice:

manos: ive got power fc coming in this week :D so basically youve just got the thinner gasket and pp to promote ur compression, wud u think pp is necessary? i hope i can get it done. sounds like we both on similar paths ;) u staying with 1.6?

blinx, sounds great! wat do u think about pp?
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Port & polish is not necessary, but ESSENTIAL. The mods I said, all are a MUST(except the V-AFC cuz is a crap :angry:) in order to get some N/A power from this restrictive 1.6 L engine......
It cannot be said to raise compression without big cams(hence valvesprings & retainers for safety), or without pp or without thinner gasket or bigger throttle body. If you just try to do the job with just one of these mods missing, then you will see you are going nowhere :(
You need to feed the car with more fuel and air.
 
ManosEK9 said:
Port & polish is not necessary, but ESSENTIAL. The mods I said, all are a MUST(except the V-AFC cuz is a crap :angry:) in order to get some N/A power from this restrictive 1.6 L engine......
It cannot be said to raise compression without big cams(hence valvesprings & retainers for safety), or without pp or without thinner gasket or bigger throttle body. If you just try to do the job with just one of these mods missing, then you will see you are going nowhere :(
You need to feed the car with more fuel and air.
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if your gonna port the head, change the cams/springs/retainers, why not just sell the b16b head for $1000 buy a b16a head for $250 and do the work on that?
 
blinx9900 said:
if your gonna port the head, change the cams/springs/retainers, why not just sell the b16b head for $1000 buy a b16a head for $250 and do the work on that?
Click to expand...
That's correct, but here, in order to sell what you want, at the time you want, and find what you want, is a pain in the ass!!! :angry2:
 
ManosEK9 said:
That's correct, but here, in order to sell what you want, at the time you want, and find what you want, is a pain in the ass!!! :angry2:
Click to expand...

correct!:nice: lol

I don't even know if PP is something the locals can do properly here...:angry:

Yup, I want to raise compression to acommodate TODA Spec B cams, which are pretty big...

I will definitely be including these parts;
TODA Valve springs(apparently SPOON ones are lighter and balanced, would this be better?)
TODA retainers,
TODA valve guides (if recommended),
TODA head gasket.
TODA timing belt
TODA Cam gears
TODA high comp pistons(but now not recommended)
And I don't know if I need TODA oil pump
ARP head studs were recommended so I hope I can get these.

Engine will be tuned with Power FC. I guess a bigger throttle body would be recommended with this setup correct?:nice:

I just want to do it with the least worries because of the lack of HONDA tuning here. :angry:

Blinx: you said that if I use 81.25mm+ pistons then I would have to modify something?

hmmm, Blinx, why change the heads? I thought they both the same? Or is one of them betteR???:shocked: I didn't know they both different...

Thanks for your advice again guys...
 
Oh, what is the code for B16B's head? PR3-3? What about B16A's code?
 
blinx9900 said:
i think you need to buy a sportbike :nice:ive driven honda's that redlined at 9800rpm with a close ratio gear set, and ive driven honda's with 8500-9000rpm redline that were faster. also if your worried about 12.5 CR being hard on the motor you shouldent even think about 10,000rpm cause thats A LOT more stress. a forum of vtec fans we are, but im obsessed with power :D revs are important too, but no more than 9000rpm imo.
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I would actually, if it werent so dangerous. My father had a friend who died in a bike accident, he would sooner thrash the bike I'd bought before I could wash it. Riding a bike at my place is a bit of a risk. :eek:

Well, which is why things like the block brace helps increase reliability and reduce wear and tear for 10,000 rpms... its a lot of money for something trivial, but something I'd do if I had a lot of money. :D



The head of a B16B and B16A has the same code. :nice:
 
jugbugz said:
correct!:nice: lol

I don't even know if PP is something the locals can do properly here...:angry:

Yup, I want to raise compression to acommodate TODA Spec B cams, which are pretty big...

I will definitely be including these parts;
TODA Valve springs(apparently SPOON ones are lighter and balanced, would this be better?)
TODA retainers,
TODA valve guides (if recommended),
TODA head gasket.
TODA timing belt
TODA Cam gears
TODA high comp pistons(but now not recommended)
And I don't know if I need TODA oil pump
ARP head studs were recommended so I hope I can get these.

Engine will be tuned with Power FC. I guess a bigger throttle body would be recommended with this setup correct?:nice:

I just want to do it with the least worries because of the lack of HONDA tuning here. :angry:

Blinx: you said that if I use 81.25mm+ pistons then I would have to modify something?

hmmm, Blinx, why change the heads? I thought they both the same? Or is one of them betteR???:shocked: I didn't know they both different...

Thanks for your advice again guys...
Click to expand...

-toda b cams are NOT big, they are toda's smallest cams!! toda D's are BIG!!

-both heads are the same, but the b16b is more valuable becuase of its internals, which you are going to change so i though it might be better to just sell it, or even buy a b16a head fix that up then when your ready put it on and sell the b16b head on ebay or something.

-81.25mm pistons need a bore and hone thats it.

-yes get a bigger throttle body, 68mm should be perfect.

regarding your list of stuff, i copied and pasted below and removed the unneeded parts:

-TODA Valve springs
-TODA retainers,
-TODA/mugen/spoon/buddyclub head gasket. there all teh same
-TODA timing belt.
-TODA Cam gears
-mill the head .020 if you think your rings are bad just change your rings and keep the stock pistons.
-ARP head studs (i'll send you a set if you cant find them locally)

even if you dont mill the head, the thin head gasket will give you compression of about 11.1 which is fine for toda B, if you mill it also you'll have about 11.8. the toda pistons are just a waste of money imo.
 
Thanks Blinx! :thanks:

So it's ok to mill the head and stick with the stock pistons right? That way theres no need to sell it correct?

Yeh, but Spec D is a diff league :) I see Spec C is almost identical as B, but heard theres quite a bit of difference. Is there any further modifications needed if I jump to spec C?

Yes please send me some ARP studs :lock::clap::nice::nerv: I can pay which ever way...:thanks::thanks::thanks:

As for 68mm throttle body, which one brand recommended?
 
yeah just keep the stock pistons, with a milled head .020 and a 2 layer head gasket youll have 11.8 compression which is pretty good!

i dont think you need any other mods for spec C as long as you have the uprated valvetrain springs/retainers/etc.....

for a throttlebody, if your on a budget the AEBS one is the best, there about $165 last time i checked.
 
blinx9900 said:
yeah just keep the stock pistons, with a milled head .020 and a 2 layer head gasket youll have 11.8 compression which is pretty good!

i dont think you need any other mods for spec C as long as you have the uprated valvetrain springs/retainers/etc.....

for a throttlebody, if your on a budget the AEBS one is the best, there about $165 last time i checked.
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Wouldn't a single layer head gasket promote more compression?

Yeh i was looking at the specs of the Spec B and C and it seems like the only difference is the exhaust VTEC lobe, the rest is the same, so i guess the idle for both should be the same too right? That way I might just get Spec C for more top end.

Would it be necessary for the valve guides and oil pump with spec C?

Also as for the Valve springs, TODA ones are egg shaped and spoon ones are blanced and lighter then TODA. Which out of the 2 would you use?

Throttle body: yeh that price is pretty good! but they all the same and do the same job right? I found this on ebay... nvr heard of it though.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Powe...014QQitemZ330156259977QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

I might even think about getting new valves, you did say there was some flat ones to promote compression, how much would a set cost?
 
jugbugz said:
Wouldn't a single layer head gasket promote more compression?

Yeh i was looking at the specs of the Spec B and C and it seems like the only difference is the exhaust VTEC lobe, the rest is the same, so i guess the idle for both should be the same too right? That way I might just get Spec C for more top end.

Would it be necessary for the valve guides and oil pump with spec C?

Also as for the Valve springs, TODA ones are egg shaped and spoon ones are blanced and lighter then TODA. Which out of the 2 would you use?

Throttle body: yeh that price is pretty good! but they all the same and do the same job right? I found this on ebay... nvr heard of it though.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Powe...014QQitemZ330156259977QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

I might even think about getting new valves, you did say there was some flat ones to promote compression, how much would a set cost?
Click to expand...

the TB on ebay is the same one i was referring too and yes they all do the same job. flat face valves only add .2 compression and ive heard that they affect flow in a negative way, so its up to you, i wouldent get them personally. regarding valve springs, i would get the ones that match your cams, toda cams, then get toda springs, they are designed to work together. the spec C is not a bad idea, i would get that, i prefer top end over low end, the b16b will never make any low end power so there is no point in trying, thats just my opinion though.
 
Great!! :D

When you get the ARP studs ready let me know...

So, would i be needing the TODA uprated oil pump? This would just be pumping more oil right?

And the head gasket? why should I use 2 layers?
 
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