Turbo B16a V B18C Conversion - Opinions Needed

[D'janiero]

Hey guys.
Well after owning my EK9 for over 6 months now,and appreciating how good the car is in stock form, the modding bug is slowly but surely trying to reel me back in (I always said I would leave my ek9 stock).

I love the way the car handles etc so I don't want to alter anything there, however I have been thinking about different engine upgrades.

I have spoken to quite a few honda techies so far including some on this forum who have given me some great info, but now I've got a lil dilemma as to which route to take.

Option 1) - Buy a B18C engine, sell my B16B and find a reputable person to carry out the conversion. Alot of honda people have suggested this option, as they believe it will be more reliable than a turbo setup, plus alot easier to live with on a daily basis.
However, I wonder if I'll get bored with the power and crave for more.

Option 2) - Sell my B16B, buy a B16A, give it a full service and buy all the relevant parts needed i.e. turbo kit, fueling etc to safely run 250whp at around 8psi.
The only thing which concerns me slightly about this setup is that, I've read horror stories of people blowing up turbo engines on stock internals etc. But surely this must be down to bad tuning?

Option 3) - All of option 2 but have the b16a fully built , i.e. pistons, rods, bearings, ARP headstuds, oil pump, water pump, hone & bore etc, so I could run more boost i.e.300whp plus if needed.

So far option 1 and 2 are the main ones I swaying towards. I reccon I'd be more than happy with, 250whp for a daily driven car. Having said that, the torque increase from fitting the B18C might be enough for me.

I havent really got a budget to work to as I will be collecting parts over time. I'm not in no real rush to mod really. I want to look at all my options before hand.

Thanks for any input / opinions on this.

 

[EK9turbo]

1 or 3. theyre both great fun, or 4. (Kswap) All great. I'd avoid 2 for long term reliability

B18c is a great motor to have in your EK9, so is the K series, You should hook-up with Jimbob and let him take you for a spin in his B18c EK9.

 

[D'janiero]

Cool,i'll drop him a pm and speak to him dude. Did you get the pm/email I sent you the other day?

 

[EK9turbo]

cool, yeah I did recieve the email thanks, I thought i replied to it? let-me check!

 

[EK9turbo]

Sorry that was my fault, id just not replied to it. sent reply now buddy

 

[EK9dan]

can i ask why turboing the B16B isnt an option?

 

[EK9turbo]

you cant get rods for it unless theyre customs. Stock rods arent that strong

 

[Wiskimike]

so turboing the 16b is nearly impossible? i wanted to do that next winter =/

 

[EK9turbo]

It is possible and many people have done it. But a high powered turbo build needs rods and pistons designed for the purpose. This gives you your reliability over stock.

 

[Tmus]

yeah, I would turbo the B16B personally, with low boost. Unless you want to see HUGE power...turboing B16B within safe limit should get you a massive gain compare to NA.

I'm looking into turbo myself, as it is the next thing i would do in the power department.

 

[blinx9900]

you cant get rods for it unless theyre customs. Stock rods arent that strong

come on now, stock rods are good enough for at least 450bhp, there not weak at all, factory units are forged, there just skinny... i have factory b16a rods right now and im making 333whp. The factory piston is really the weak link after that the rodbolt. But i digress, i think you should go with option 4 if your weary of turbocharging, sell all your stuff and get a K swap

With a thicker headgasket to lower compression and headstuds any b16b should be able to handle 275bhp with a proper tune, but leaving the compression high it is going to be a ticking time bomb.

 

[D'janiero]

Thanks for your input guys.
I would use the b16b for a turbo build, but after seeing how much precision and work that went into building the blocks on the type r videos, it seems like a shame to pull the engine appart to turbo, plus finding a reputeable mechanic locally to carry out the work to a high standard may be a problem.

So it seems to make sense to sell the b16b, and get a b16a to turbo instead.

@ek9turbo - Thanks man.Replied to you again

@ Blinx - I never thought about a k20 swop, but I guess thats something esle to consider. No offence but I was surprised you suggested going down the k20 instead of turbo route bro

 

[blinx9900]

@ Blinx - I never thought about a k20 swop, but I guess thats something esle to consider. No offence but I was surprised you suggested going down the k20 instead of turbo route bro

hahaha, don't worry i am not biased, every engine combination has its place, turbo vtec's are not for the faint of heart, they require a lot of TLC. The ultimate daily driver with 260bhp goal or less is going to be a K20 build in my opinion. If you want more power then a turbo is a great option. There are pros and cons to each route, you just have to go with what you think is best.

 

[D'janiero]

hahaha, don't worry i am not biased, every engine combination has its place, turbo vtec's are not for the faint of heart, they require a lot of TLC. The ultimate daily driver with 260bhp goal or less is going to be a K20 build in my opinion. If you want more power then a turbo is a great option. There are pros and cons to each route, you just have to go with what you think is best.

lol...glad to see your not biased and giving me opinions on other alternatives to turbos builds man

What else is needed to drop a k20 into a 9 appart from the engine Blinx?

Also if I went for option 3) e.g.. fully built b16a then turbo that, I'm guessing I could run 260whp or below for daily driving then crank up the boost for more power when on track or racing with a good quality boost controller i.e. avc-r?

 

[blinx9900]

lol...glad to see your not biased and giving me opinions on other alternatives to turbos builds man

What else is needed to drop a k20 into a 9 appart from the engine Blinx?

Ive never actually done a K swap and i prefer to speak from experience so i can't really say, i know installing the shifter is a bit of a pain to do it all properly and your RAD needs to be moved over to the others side, hondata KPRO is pretty much required and a harness etc... there was a thread on here with a very in depth k-swap, it would be best to hunt for that.

Also if I went for option 3) e.g.. fully built b16a then turbo that, I'm guessing I could run 260whp or below for daily driving then crank up the boost for more power when on track or racing with a good quality boost controller i.e. avc-r?

With a rebuilt bottom end using forged pistons/rods and vavle springs/retainers in the head you should be good for 300whp on the street and as high as 450whp safely on track with racegas. This is all with supporting fuel and breathing mods, proper injectors, fuel pump, exhaust, cooling, clutch etc... and of course you will need a capable EMS and tuner. Most EMS's can control boost and have capability to switch between high boost and low boost with a switch that can be mounted anywhere so you tune one map for high boost and race gas and one map for low boost and street gas and you can switch between the two as long as you have the proper fuel in your tank.

 

[D'janiero]

Cool. Thanks again for the info

A few honda purists reccon that turbo'ing an ek9 will spoil the chracteristics of the car i.e. handling, braking etc. Is the stock chassis capable of handling the increase in power from the turbo dyou think?

 

[RagingAngel]

I think those purists should worry about their own cars instead of polluting the minds of others.

The chassis can handle the power fine, if we're talking about the unibody itself. Expect to get better brake pads at the very least.

 

[EK9turbo]

I think those purists should worry about their own cars instead of polluting the minds of others.

The chassis can handle the power fine, if we're talking about the unibody itself. Expect to get better brake pads at the very least.

Well-Said

and D'j... Yes the chassis handles it perfectly... originally I was thinking it was going to affect handling but its barely affected the balance of the car.

as ragingAngel said though, better brake pads are reccomended. On the street in our (heat absorbing lol) climate sotck pads work superb, but give it some stick and a couple of high speed (like 140+) braking stints consequtively and they;ll sweat it a touch. Still awesome for stock equipment though.

 

[blinx9900]

I think those purist should die in a fire and learn about cars before they talk... god damn im in a foul mood tonight...

 

[jugbugz]

A nice slot in between high capacity N/A and Turbo would be a Supercharger.

I have a centrifugal system on my other car. Some ppl might not like the fact it produces boost according to engine RPM, so max boost pressure doesnt arrive until the redline because it is simply a 'Belt Driven Turbo'.
However, its more efficient than the roots type and produces much less heat + you can run an intercooler in the system. it also gives you that Turbo induction whistle sound.

Root type chargers are the old very first types. Produce lots of boost in the early rpms but boost pressure falls off in higher rpms.

Twin screw type produces max boost pressure from 2500-2800rpm and holds it all the way to the redline, this system is the most efficient/powerful of the 3 types but also the quietest. You get the slight whine sound from this.

Personally, I'd prefer the Centrifugal on a type R engine, simply because it retains the N/A characteristics (hence VTEC) and also less strain on the internals compared to other forcefed options... Probally the safest bolt on FI kit for a type R engine.

I've thought about the Centifugal charger route at first but decided on the N/A route.