ek9 and vxr


id honestly be very surprised if an ek9 will even come close to a scooby sti, i was out in a totally standard hawk eye and the launch was mental, and the torque through every gear, just kept pulling, ek9's dont feel that quick atall, its all about the sence of speed from it being a small lightweight hatch. think everyone has been racing wrx's with sti spoilers lol
 
type-r-mad said:
id honestly be very surprised if an ek9 will even come close to a scooby sti, i was out in a totally standard hawk eye and the launch was mental, and the torque through every gear, just kept pulling, ek9's dont feel that quick atall, its all about the sence of speed from it being a small lightweight hatch. think everyone has been racing wrx's with sti spoilers lol
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And alot of people are surprised! Launching isnt the speed of the car. Its 4WD so obviously has an advantage to launch at higher RPM and maintain grip.

But on rolling starts there isnt a great deal in it. Remember im going by my Fully stripped out B18C EK9 with 200BHP. Not any old EK9.

Im not an idiot, i know what an STI is, especially the fact that the WRX imports(older models) get beaten and they are around 260BHP. My brother has had 2 so i know. And ive driven them.

And yes they pull really hard due to the torque and gearing, but feeling fast and going fast are 2 completely different things. They are to completely different engines so you cant compare speeds by just going in them.

My friends old 500BHP EVO 8 pulled harder then my 320BHP starlet for sure, pulled like nothing else, but when we raced millions of times it was completely dead even all the way to top speed, every time. 4WD cars with short gearing with good torque tend to give you that very hard pulling sensation making it feel faster then it actually is. Not thats STI's are not fast, but you not what i mean.
 
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EK9dan said:
And alot of people are surprised! Launching isnt the speed of the car. Its 4WD so obviously has an advantage to launch at higher RPM and maintain grip.

But on rolling starts there isnt a great deal in it. Remember im going by my Fully stripped out B18C EK9 with 200BHP. Not any old EK9.

Im not an idiot, i know what an STI is, especially the fact that the WRX imports(older models) get beaten and they are around 260BHP. My brother has had 2 so i know. And ive driven them.

And yes they pull really hard due to the torque and gearing, but feeling fast and going fast are 2 completely different things. They are to completely different engines so you cant compare speeds by just going in them.

My friends old 500BHP EVO 8 pulled harder then my 320BHP starlet for sure, pulled like nothing else, but when we raced millions of times it was completely dead even all the way to top speed, every time. 4WD cars with short gearing with good torque tend to give you that very hard pulling sensation making it feel faster then it actually is. Not thats STI's are not fast, but you not what i mean.
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Dan what your saying about "sense" of speed and "actual" speed is very very true and very hard to get my head around!

I went out in a 2.8 V6 golf the other day and the amount of torque was unreal compared to my little B16A! it felt soooo quick. Then i let him drive mine and i was the passenger and...my car felt awful! i mean..really really slow compared to the golf when being sat in the passenger seat!

So he said to me "why not have a little race between the both?" so i say ok but your gonna thrash me...seeing as his car FELT so much quicker i didnt think i had a chance.

So we set off...and guess what...my little B16A beat him in every gear every time! yet his felt soooo much faster!

I still cant begin to understand how it works out that way. I know that it's torque that makes a car feel fast and thats why i've never felt a Honda is that quick when sat in the passenger seat but when driving it and racing other cars its unbelievable what happens!

There must be a science to it somewhere lol
 
more torque makes a car feel really fast

but bhp wins races

bhp is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you
 
JDMarron said:
Dan what your saying about "sense" of speed and "actual" speed is very very true and very hard to get my head around!

I went out in a 2.8 V6 golf the other day and the amount of torque was unreal compared to my little B16A! it felt soooo quick. Then i let him drive mine and i was the passenger and...my car felt awful! i mean..really really slow compared to the golf when being sat in the passenger seat!

So he said to me "why not have a little race between the both?" so i say ok but your gonna thrash me...seeing as his car FELT so much quicker i didnt think i had a chance.

So we set off...and guess what...my little B16A beat him in every gear every time! yet his felt soooo much faster!

I still cant begin to understand how it works out that way. I know that it's torque that makes a car feel fast and thats why i've never felt a Honda is that quick when sat in the passenger seat but when driving it and racing other cars its unbelievable what happens!

There must be a science to it somewhere lol
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There you have it Dan. Oh and i could have told you you would have beat the VR6 golf, Nearly everyone of my mates has had one. My bros got a 2.9 version with about 215BHP stripped out etc, Thats fast!

My mate currently has a normal VR6 and even that feels alot more torquey then my 9, yet on a 4th gear pull at 2000RPM on the motorway i leave him for dust. Strange. And the gearing is very similar. I literally blow the VR6's away, wouldnt even call it a race.

Torque is good and can be useful, but you can make it up with revs/gearing and a light weight chassis. It helps to give that initial "throw the car forward" effect but once you start going through the gear there is a line where BHP takes over and the car then relies on that not torque. Torque is only useful if a cars engine produces alot of it low down in the rev range, but then if the car is heavy then its wasted and then you need more of it.

Theres alot of things to consider not just peak numbers.

Remember if torque was so important in performance then why the hell are diesels so slow for the amount of torque they actually have? Because they dont have enough Horse power! And they make the most of the performance through really short gears to make most use of the torque.

And like i said my other car has 310lbs 900KG shell so im far from being bias.
 
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leeK9 said:
more torque makes a car feel really fast

but bhp wins races

bhp is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you
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This made me chuckle.

So true, my mates TDI has a ton of torque and feels massivly quick.

My car on the other hand feels very taime.

At the lights thought he cant touch me.
 
Who cares really? My old Sti type r would eat a b18c ek9 without a doubt even on it's low boost setting .9bar but im willing to accept there is plenty of faster cars out there than mine and that's the way it is. It may not require much power with good gearing to quickly accelerate to 120mph but from there on is where the extra power is needed to
keep pushing.
 
Oh I dont care otherwise i would have more power, i think the power is enough for what i use the car for at the moment. Its just a discussion like :)

Vtec6000, did you ever actually race a B18C EK9, weather it was stripped/tuned etc? As im only basing what im saying around what has actually happened not what i think would happen dude.
 
EK9dan said:
Vtec6000, did you ever actually race a B18C EK9, weather it was stripped/tuned etc? As im only basing what im saying around what has actually happened not what i think would happen dude.
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Yes mate I have and im also basing what I'm saying on true facts. Was it a Sti or a Sti type r you raced? Cause my Sti type r on .9 bar could easily sit beside my friends Sti saloon which was running 1.3bar so there is a noticeable difference between those two models.
 
Vtec6000 said:
Yes mate I have and im also basing what I'm saying on true facts. Was it a Sti or a Sti type r you raced? Cause my Sti type r on .9 bar could easily sit beside my friends Sti saloon which was running 1.3bar so there is a noticeable difference between those two models.
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I raced a couple and to be honest with you they were probably STI's, I dont think i raced a type R model. Im not 100% sure.

I presume the type R is lighter but with same power? The models do tend to confuse. I do know they were STI's though as they were noticeably faster then WRX's and the fact they said STI on them and they look slightly different.
 
EK9dan said:
I raced a couple and to be honest with you they were probably STI's, I dont think i raced a type R model. Im not 100% sure.

I presume the type R is lighter but with same power? The models do tend to confuse. I do know they were STI's though as they were noticeably faster then WRX's and the fact they said STI on them and they look slightly different.
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The type r is a JDM import 2dr there was also a wrx version 2dr I don't no the spec of that but as for the sti type r model they were 280bhp out of box with short ratio gearing, adjustable diff controller and a lite weight chassis.
 
My B18C6 EK4 sat side by side with my mates EVO 4 which was dyno'd at 274bhp on the same day & dyno that mine was dyno'd @ 209bhp.

Keep in mind that an EK9 will be alot lighter than my EK4 was.

Doubt this will help the discussion but thought i'd add to it.
 
well i own a corsa Vxr an a civic b16a2...i do have to say the vxr is faster..the type r ep3 even struggle to beat me
 
my dear god theres some pish comments on here.. my b18C civic.. versus any version sti you care to mention that isn't half dead straight line is no contest

versus my 2.5 sti hawkeye it wouldn't even be close don't get me wrong the way the civic goes about it's work is vicious but its in a different league

anyways thought this thread was about vxr bashing.. lol
 
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