Wilwood 4 pots problem


Kozy said:
If you've got over-powerful brakes the last thing you need is a bigger booster.
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Do you mean that its better the small one? :nerv:

With big booster i apply more force with less pedal, wright?as i have, for now, to many pedal travel that can be better or no? im little confused...maybe you're try to tell me that can lock easly with big booster

I dont understand why ek9 and dc2 have the same calipers/discs use same 1inch master cylinder but not the same booster, can be for pedal ratio?

Any ek9 owner can please verify the booster ref? please
 
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If you have Wilwoods they are very powerful because of the big pistons, so you won't need to push very hard on the pedal. Adding a bigger booster will make them over sensitive, you will lock the wheels very easy.

I can't advise on the booster sizes, to my knowledge the bigger master cylnder got the bigger booster. If you're saying otherwise then I have no idea.
 
I will wait for anyone see ek9 booster the reference...sammy, steven please...2minutes, its only to read top of booster "Nissin nm2(xx)v".

i understand Kozy what you´re telling me but im confused as this two booster wich have different sizes have the same 1" master cylinder.

The big its the same as dc2 98 spec of a friend, as have same "Nissin nm290v", the other "Nissin nm260v-3" have for now 1 reply telling me that its from ek9...for years now my idea is that ek9 and dc2 have same booster but i see that is not true

Kozy thanks a lot for you´re help to everyone on this thread :)
 
Marco said:
I will wait for anyone see ek9 booster the reference...sammy, steven please...2minutes, its only to read top of booster "Nissin nm2(xx)v".

i understand Kozy what you´re telling me but im confused as this two booster wich have different sizes have the same 1" master cylinder.

The big its the same as dc2 98 spec of a friend, as have same "Nissin nm290v", the other "Nissin nm260v-3" have for now 1 reply telling me that its from ek9...for years now my idea is that ek9 and dc2 have same booster but i see that is not true

Kozy thanks a lot for you´re help to everyone on this thread :)
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Use the smaller of the two boosters. Even with that smaller booster you may find its overly sensitive...at that stage, use the Kozy adjuster.
 
Got on fine with mine at Oulton. Pedal travel and firmness was fine. I would say it did feel a little overassisted for my preference with the 8+9 servo but not too bad.

I was actually going to stick with the EK4 servo but someone posted (I think earlier in this thread) that he had mixed servo and MC from two different models and it ended up causing his brakes to drag, can't see why that would be the case but decided not to risk it.
 
clockwoRk said:
I was actually going to stick with the EK4 servo but someone posted (I think earlier in this thread) that he had mixed servo and MC from two different models and it ended up causing his brakes to drag, can't see why that would be the case but decided not to risk it.
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Never set the servo to MC pushrod clearance Id guess
 
:angry2:
clockwoRk said:
Got on fine with mine at Oulton. Pedal travel and firmness was fine. I would say it did feel a little overassisted for my preference with the 8+9 servo but not too bad.

I was actually going to stick with the EK4 servo but someone posted (I think earlier in this thread) that he had mixed servo and MC from two different models and it ended up causing his brakes to drag, can't see why that would be the case but decided not to risk it.
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do you install ek9 or dc2 mc and booster?

do you have freaky wilwood front?the rear is 240or 260?
 
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Don't know what car they're from sorry mate. Just grabbed them off the shelf at R-Motion.

Yep, the fronts are Freaky Parts Wilwood Midilites and I'm just using the standard 240mm setup on the rear
 
clockwoRk said:
Yep, the fronts are Freaky Parts Wilwood Midilites and I'm just using the standard 240mm setup on the rear
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I'm assuming some half decent pads up front too. You have no issues with this setup?
 
cant say conclusively as i only had 3 laps dry running before i had suspension issues but thought theyfelt fine at the that time.

using ds2500s on the front and ebc yellowstuffs on the rear.
 
Stock prop valve? I assume ABS has been disabled?

Just asking because that setup has a seriously heavy front bias which could potentially lose you time on corner entries during a race. We're talking between 50-60% where something like Steven's touring car setup would be at less than 10%.

Seeing as you're racing, this sort of thing starts to matter. Something to look at if your times are down on expected as it could be losing you several metres into every corner over a perfectly balanced car. ;)
 
1inch mc installed and pedal feels better but not close as oem feeling. i will do some miles and re-bleed to see.

i do not understand how people tell that pedal goes hard...my only go hard when car is not runing
 
Kozy said:
Just asking because that setup has a seriously heavy front bias which could potentially lose you time on corner entries during a race. We're talking between 50-60% where something like Steven's touring car setup would be at less than 10%.
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Like I said I can't be concusive as I had so little decent running but I didn't notice anything untoward and was still able to work the rear round when turning in on the brakes.
Could you explain the percentages please? I've never seen bias explained as anything other than something like '75% front', so I don't really understand what you mean.
 
When someone expresses the bias as 75% front, it means that out of say 2000lbs brake force being deployed, 1500lbs is being created by the front brakes. What this doesn't give you any clue of is the traction available as a result of the tyre loads, if you had 70% front weight during hard braking, '75%' would be front biased. If you had 80% front weight, it would be rear biased. This is a bit like someone trying to explain how well their car accelerates simply by giving you the peak torque figure alone, it's fairly ambiguous without further information.

The '10%' method includes a factor of weight distribution, and is basically how far away the rear tyres are from saturation when the fronts are at the limit. The ideal for the absolute minimum stopping distance would be 0%, i.e. each axle gets exactly as much torque as it has traction, neither is being under or over worked. This is the fastest way to stop, no doubt about it.

In the case of 10%, 20% or in your case 50%, it means at the point the fronts cannot give any more, the rears are effectively 10, 20 or 50% short on what they could be doing.

Stopping distances are not the only factor either, the rear suspension is designed to react brake torque by jacking down the rear of the car. You can see this effect when you try and drive off with the handbrake on (shitty Honda handbrakes excepted!) With stock bias the car should effectively hunker down under braking, the rear still lifts but the anti-lift effects are keeping it in check, which affects toe and camber angles on corner entry. If you heavily bias to the front, the rears getting their 50% less than designed workload cannot offer the same kind of control and the rear of the car lifts a lot more. People can and do mis-interpret this as vastly increased stopping power causing more load transfer but the effects can be de-stabilising as the alignments go well outside their normal operating ranges.

The effects are far more subtle than when upgrading the front brakes, but a heavy front bias is not good under any circumstances in a FWD car.
 
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I agree with kozy.

at this moment i only upgrade front with wilwoods and ds2500 and i feel the car lower a lot on front when i hit more hard brakes.

i have at home rear ek9 calipers wich i will give a refresh and change all seals and then i will install. im thinking put ebc yellows for rear wich its cheaper then ds2500 and maybe ebc sloted discs,good choice?

my brake pedal feels better now with 1" mc,less pedal travel and slight hard pedal but the change as not dramatic as i expect. i will rebuild again in two weeks and i will see the feeling
 
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Gotcha.
I'll see how I get on with them at the next one, doing a trackday the day before so hopefully it'll be dry and I'll actually be able to give everything a proper testing.
I do have some MB6 rears at home which will make their way on to the car at some point (need different carriers to fit them :() but for the moment money dictates it's going to stay as it is, but definitely something I will bare in mind.
 
anyone know what 15" wheels fit over the wilwoods without spacers what ET do i need ?

im on 4x100 btw
 
My OZ Superturismos fly over them and you can pick them up for next to nothing on ebay nowadays. I think mine are ET38.
My main wheels are wolfrace prolite ET35 and they very nearly clear them, I have them on 3mm spacers but tbh I think 1mm would do.
 
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