JohnTurbo's B18C EK4 Race Car

[SPek9]

What was used to paint the inside black on the inside do you know?

The first time I used rattle cans, never again as it nearly killed me with the fumes and the amount of them you need to buy

When I got the car painted properly the inside was re-painted with 2 pack championship white out of a spray gun

 

[JohnTurbo]

Sadly the Pro 2000 was out of date, and so I needed to find a replacement. I found a nearly new Cobra Sebring ProFit for sale on ebay and made an offer when it didn't meet reserve.

Its a good seat, and the wings are meant to offer significant safety advantages!
Demon tweaks sell this for £620! eep.

I've also bought a B16B head as I'm used to forced induction and consequently seem to have power lust despite the car being very rapid just as I received it!

Anyway took it to Cadwell park on Sunday, it was a gruelling 3 hour drive at 5500rpm to go any decent speed, but had great fun at the track. Its so easy to drive fast compared to my supercharged VX220 and very comparable on the corners.

BUT - I broke 5th gear! I can only assume the selector fork has broken, but happy to hear any suggestions. The lever physically goes into place but no drive. No noise when it went, I just hit the limiter and thougt the clutch had gone until I tried 4th.

It was a MORE gruelling return journey - I've bought a trailer which I pick up on Saturday.
I've also bought a spare set of wheels for 100 quid....also to be picked up on Saturday. Its been an expensive month!!

I'm going to race this in the 1.6 class of Tintops in 2014, so a few things to do yet!

Stephen, if you read this - I'd love a heads up on what tyre pressures you're run before, and suspension settings!
I ran it on full soft as it was nice and compliant for learning the car.

 

[JohnTurbo]

- Also a young photographer at the track asked if he could have a photoshoot with the car! haha.
Sadly I live the other side of the country.

 

[SPek9]

Hi John, I have never personally seen a selector fork break on a b-series box but you can't rule it out.

I built a dc2 box a couple of weeks ago and he also lost all drive in 5th gear on the track and when he put the car into 5th it just jumped back out. When I stripped the box down the 5th gear syncro and hub was destroyed so there was no actual engagement anymore

Hopefully all you need is a 4th/5th gear suncro and hub set. Did you grind 5th much on the track before the failure? It does sound strange how you described it happening and the box never miss-shifted on the track for me but Im sure you are still getting used to the high rpm changes

Another thing which really helps save the clutch and box is heel toe (rev matching) when going down through the gears. As I also mentioned 10w40 engine oil worked best for us on the track and change after each trackday with a fresh 2.4L


Good choice getting a trailer!

For tyre pressures I usually went out with about 23psi front and 26psi rear but it all depends on the track and temperatures etc. Basically you want around 30psi when fully up to temperature in the tyres for the AD08's IMO
If you change over to an R compound semi slick then you can go a bit lower to around 28psi when warm as they have much stiffer sidewalls

I found the car best for my driving style fully hard damping on the front and about 4-5 clicks off fully hard on the rear just to keep the back end from being too tail happy


Its great to see the car being used for what it was built for! I miss it already and have started to build a track car for next year

 

[JohnTurbo]

Thanks for your input!

You can physically hold the shifter right forward in the 5th position with no noise what so ever, so it doesn't sound like quite the same thing. No mashed gears really, my dad was a bit harder on them, but I was driving at the time. I was blipping on downshifts but my foot would have to learn to heel-toe!

Do you know if s80 bits are compatible as if it is the fork, there's a set of s80 forks on ebay for 43quid?
Will hold off buying until I whip the box out and have a look what I've one.

 

[SPek9]

You need to be precise when changing gear in a close ratio box at that high rpms so don't let your dad drive anymore lol

If you can get 2nd hand parts then its not so bad but buying new parts for Honda boxes gets very expensive

Yes the s80 forks will fit fine, all b-series gearbox parts like; the selector mech, forks, syncros, hubs, bearings are all the same. The shafts, ring gears, gears and diffs are different between the different b-series boxes and some parts can not be mixed like shafts and final drive gears with different ratios for example

 

[Sam121]

Nice build good luck with the track racing

 

[JohnTurbo]

Cheap S80 forks have arrived...box is nearly out along with the engine.

How hard is that bloody inlet manifold to get off?

Looking at the forks its difficult to imagine one having broken, serious piece of metalwork!

 

[SPek9]

Cheap S80 forks have arrived...box is nearly out along with the engine.

How hard is that bloody inlet manifold to get off?

Looking at the forks its difficult to imagine one having broken, serious piece of metalwork!

Inlet manifold is a bit fiddly but with the right length extensions its not too bad a job with the engine in place

I don't think you have broken a selector fork to be honest, it sounds like you have stripped the syncro and slider or worst case the gear aswell

If you are fitting an ek9 head with the standard Vti bottom end, if you get the ek9 head skimmed and fit a spoon thin head gasket you should raise the compression just enough to make use of the ek9 head and cams. Then all you need is a good remap.

The bottom end in the car seems very strong and seeing that it doesn't burn oil the piston rings must still be in good shape. I have seen plenty of b-series engines bored, honed and new rings fitted and they smoke and burn more oil after the rebuild!

A baffled sump was something that I always planned to fit but didn't get around to it

 

[JohnTurbo]

Well the results are in the input shaft pinion gear for 5th has failed.

The part is machined in two parts and friction welded together. I can still see the machining marks on both parts which doesn't impress onto me that the weld was correctly performed. (I'm a degree qualified mechanical engineer with a background in CNC machining!)

I don't know what to do about this - I guess email mfactory and see if I can buy just the input gear, as 300odd quid for something thats clearly a manufacturing defect is a bit tough to bear. - As mentioned no mashing of gears had occured and the syncro and engagement teeth are like new.

The link below suggests mfactory no longer manufacture gears in two parts due to this issue.

http://www.d-series.org/forums/transmission-alley/175457-gear-set-run-d16-transmission-road-racing.html

 

[ijwhiteman]

Nice build! Car looks mint!

 

[SPek9]

That's shocking to see John, those gears must have still been old stock as I only bought them from M-factory a few months ago brand new

I'm glad to see that the syncros and sliders etc are all good as they were like new when I built the box

I always knew that b16a was a freak, gear munching torque!!

 

[King Sir]

Well done dude looks way better now

 

[JohnTurbo]

Some shots of removing the thing..

 

[SPek9]

Nice work

 

[Richmond]

Love this car!

 

[JohnTurbo]

Thanks for the comments, though more of them are relevant to Spek at the moment.

Had the discussion with MFactory about the gear, and sent them photos.

Fairplay the response is very good. Despite not offering waranty on race products, the weld is a known issue and so they're sending me a free replacement. I've returned the failed gear to California, so I just have my fingers crossed that there arent serious customs delays like I usually seem to get. (a supercharger once took 11 weeks!)

Current parts are laser welded FYI.

 

[JohnTurbo]

While waiting for the 5th gear, i've been building up my new engine.

I seem to have bought a B16B in bits.

First I bought the head, thinking of putting it on the B16A2 - its in great nick with the oil blackening on the camshafts being like new, meaning no scoring whatsoever.

Interestingly the "Porting" of the B16B is a bit of a joke really. The thinned valvestems, and correct cam marking, and even the remains of some green paint were all present and correct.

See the "porting" right at the back...

Then a B16B bottom end came up from a lump with a blown gasket on CL.

Then when it arrived I found myself without headbolts, and bought some ARP ones and a genuine Honda head gasket.

Ok - then it struck me the inlet would be restrictive, so I picked one up from a dude on CL who breaks integras in Bury.

Ok!! So a complete B16B - but no ECU. I'd bought an S200 Hondata, but since I have a basically stock engine I'll likely sell that again, as I bought a Pre-face EK9 ECU of Egay.

I'm totally hemoraging cash!

Build up of the engine was at the weekend..

Now...just need that 5th gear.

Oh and a new clutch.

 

[SPek9]

Good work, I always said that if I was to put an engine in the car that it would have to be a B16B they are a very good motor

I hope you get a few videos of the car on the track when you are up and running

 

[JohnTurbo]

So to get up to date...

Friday brought me a parcel from MFactory, a none-buggered 5th gear.

Getting the box back together was a bit of a pig, but I was prepared for this.
Main issue was I managed to lock the 1st/2nd selector fork with the sprung detent bolt. No problem to sort this when I found it.

Clutch was getting thin, so bought a Honda Integra R (P73) one.
Exedy is on the right...

Actually the Exedy is a slightly bigger diamter than the honda one.

Best clutch alignment tool ever...

My buddy helped to fit the box to the lump and stcik them in the car...

Engine mostly went in without hitch, but there were a couple of points..
The throttle body had a nipple from the charcoal canister, and there isn't one on my P73 TB. The p73 mani also has an extra nipple...so i've temporarily blanked it, until I do it more neatly...

It seems the EK4 mounts aren't ideal for the B too, as my bonnet doesn't shut now! Easy enough to drop the engine at the NS though, so will do this soon by ~10mm.

The engine didn't run AT ALL well to begin with. A google of the symptoms last night suggested I'd swapped the IACV and MAP sensor wiring. It seems honda have a sence of humour to put these in reach with the same damn connector!!

Now it runs and drives great!!
Its definately faster - it span up as it it vtec in 2nd...though this would suggest the engagement point should be shifted!!