Another B16T Full Build question


PlanBtech said:
Cams depends from the exhaust manifold...
you cannot use any aggresive cam profile such pro1 etc with log or min ram.( the boost creep must be out of control)
From the other side you cannot use any oem cams(with good results) with top mount or front mount manifolds.

Ramhorn is at the middle of the turbo manifolds designs. You can go easy 500hp with your set up,depends on the boost pressure.
Oem cams are just fine, gsr cams are much better than b16a2 and works very well with log,mini ram and ramhorn,
Itr/ctr needs at least ramhorn and up...

The more streetable option and value for money=gsr cams are just perfect.
If you need a little more of that, proceed with itr cams...
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Very helpful info !!
 
Fawor said:
could somebody tell me why c4 cams are much better then b16-ones? Cause this page says, that they has exactly the same opening and closing times on both sides... (b16 and B18C USDM which is B18C4 in europe)

Specs for B series Honda Engines
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i just read that specs list and im not trying to put anyone down here becuase i beleive forums are to help people not be-little them, but the b16a2 and b18c cam sizes was all different

the b16a3 was the same as the usdm gsr which is a b18c1 not a b18c4

BUT why people use the b18c4 cams alot in turbo builds is because of the duration, which means the valves arent open as long as the cams in the b16a2 or the itr/ctr.

to put it simple

when tuning a NA engine the engine needs to SUCK in as much air as it can hence the valves open further and longer, thats why the itr/ctr cams had the biggest profiles.

and when tuning a turbo engine the engine no longer sucks air in to the cylinders it is FORCED in under pressure by the turbo, because it is now under great pressure the valves need to close much quicker because the air is coming in the intake that quick it flows straight out the exhaust ports creating what is called overlap.

i am using itr cams on my b20 turbo and the overlap is terrible if i was to build my engine again i would use c4 cams anyday, with the 12psi i throw at it i am probably wasting 2psi straight out the exhaust


here is an example, both these cams are stage 2, but look at the difference between the turbo cams and the NA cams, then look at the stage 3 NA

BrianCrower.com | RunBC.com // Honda // B16A / B18C
 
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harvey, mate... :) I don't want to (as you sad) be-better myslelf, but i have a master degree from combustion engines and you don't have to explain me what is camshaft, duration and NA-turbo differences ;)
My point was does anybody have 'on paper' (UNQUESTIONABLE) that b18c4 cams have 'better' specs then b16a2. I'm asking couse in link, which I gave in last post is info that duration, lifts, ATDCs and BTDCs in both engines are exactly the same. I've never found sure info in more then one source that c4's are 'better'.
 
Fawor said:
harvey, mate... :) I don't want to (as you sad) be-better myslelf, but i have a master degree from combustion engines and you don't have to explain me what is camshaft, duration and NA-turbo differences ;)
My point was does anybody have 'on paper' (UNQUESTIONABLE) that b18c4 cams have 'better' specs then b16a2. I'm asking couse in link, which I gave in last post is info that duration, lifts, ATDCs and BTDCs in both engines are exactly the same. I've never found sure info in more then one source that c4's are 'better'.
Click to expand...

i wasnt having a pop at anyone or trying to insult anyone just trying to help, like i said i like to help people on forums and not just give stupid answers or what they believe is right or what there mate said, its one of the reasons i left one of the other forums cos i was sick of people telling me i was building my engine wrong and when i asked them what they actually do? the reply i got was i work at the meat counter in asda and dont actually drive but "my mates got a saxo and his car is well trick"(nothing against saxo drivers or asda workers:nice:)

i beleive they have all the cam shafts specs in the haynes manual, and i have seen them online but i am trying to remember for the life of me where i did see them.
 
no problem, you could understand my post in this way :) I'll be glad if you or anybody could find sure info about these two types of cams.
 
my friend uses the c4's on his b16 at 22psi and his overlap is no way as bad as mine and i use itr cams on my b20 at 12psi
 
walo said:
Mey i ask what is overlap and it cons?
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Overlap is where both Exhaust and Inlet valves on the same cylinder are open at the same time.

with both valves open on a turbo engine alot of the pressurised air created flows straight in the intake and straight out the exhaust
 
thank you !
and can this be fixed with adjustable cam gears?

I have ITR cams on my b16a2 turbo, with a spooling performance cast iron manifold.
How can i notice the overlap?
 
i notice it on mine around the 10 psi mark, you can feel the last 1 or 2 psi it starts to struggle making more power, as both the valves are open its not just the compressed air escaping it is the fuel and air mixture resulting in a leaner fuel mixture and as leaner fuel mix burns higher its dangerous to your internals.

overlap is ok on an n/a engine as it creates a vacuum and helps suck out the exhaust gasses created.

thats why alot of people use the c4 cams as they arent as aggressive as the itr/ctr cams.
 
I have intake ITR cam and oem b16a2 exhaus cam, can that be a problem?
Is one cam worst than the other?
 
N/A cams have problem with overlap on turbo engines, but you can see this clearly on small length exhaust manifolds.
you can use ITR cams on every set up except log and cast.
log and cast works perfect with gsr cams.

i have seen B16 turbo engine to take 17 whp from B16A2 cams to ITR with ramhorn manifold, and i have seen also B18 with gsr cams and log manifold to loose power after 7.900rpm when he change the cams for ctr.
both examples with no further tuning, just swapped cams.

many tuners in US use itr cams and many also use bigger than itr, skunk pro, crower, web etc but if you can see their exhaust manifolds design, always are from ramhorn and up...

 
Haven't updated this thread in a while. Power goals have changed along with my parts list. I've learned a lot over the past few months through reading and googling. Knowledge is power. My new power goals are somewhere in the 400whp range and I would like to land somewhere close to 300 wtq. Got the block and head back from the machine shop. Block was sleeved and I'm running CP 9:1 pistons. In hindsight I wish I would've stayed closer to stock compression. This way I could've run a little less boost to reach my goals. Gonna mail off the turbo and exhaust manifold to get ceramic coated for functional purposes and aesthetics. Waiting on the mail and I've got to pass MOT. Pics coming soon. Updated parts list:
ID 1000
Innovative Mounts
CC lightweight flywheel
Hondata COP retro fit
AEM Fuel Rail
Supertech Spring/Retainer Kit
Skunk2 Pro IM
Skunk 2 TB
CP Pistons
Eagle Rods
Hondata s300
Catch Can Setup
 
The best cams for a boosted honda are a combination of B18c4 Inlet and and Type R exhaust with variable valve gear, I believe you retard the inlet by 3 degrees IIRC.
I am not sure what power this will see you too, i am sure crowner to a turbo range of cams for big power.

The above is the OEM set up is want i am going to run, see if it works.

EDIT. Did realise this went for 3 pages before i replied just read through everyone's posts :nice:
 
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i new here ...i have b16a engine and now rebuild it i thinking put b18c6 cams and cam gears what i need to now what i need more for full working with that cams ? springs and retainers ? thanks all...
 
wishy said:
The best cams for a boosted honda are a combination of B18c4 Inlet and and Type R exhaust with variable valve gear, I believe you retard the inlet by 3 degrees IIRC.
I am not sure what power this will see you too, i am sure crowner to a turbo range of cams for big power.

The above is the OEM set up is want i am going to run, see if it works.

EDIT. Did realise this went for 3 pages before i replied just read through everyone's posts :nice:
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That works well for a supercharged setup but if your going full ram manifold and decent size turbo just use type r intake and exhaust cam.
 
interesting thread, without going too far off topic whats peoples views on a n/a b16a running c4 cams with the intention to use the same cams in a turbo set up when more money is available...
 
civicx3 said:
interesting thread, without going too far off topic whats peoples views on a n/a b16a running c4 cams with the intention to use the same cams in a turbo set up when more money is available...
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c4 cams are fine but CTR or ITR cams would serve both setups better.
 
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