VTEC Camshafts Specs / Comparison for Honda B series Engines


rvm

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blinx9900 said:
yes, stock comp b16b should be fine, thin hg would be nice too though, should bring you to 11.1, they are not too big, you just need to get upgraded valve springs and retainers and get comfortable shifting at 9000rpm:D this is the cam jon at blox recomends for b16b owners who drive there cars on the street and some track. i still havent checked out the spec C, i have no idea where they fit in the blox range, because it goes from smallest to biggest type a, type b, then HSL. i might call him on tuesday and see what there intended application is.
Cool, thank you, i dont use my car on the street, maybe i can use the spec c, let me know what he says :eek:
 


blinx9900

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rvm said:
Cool, thank you, i dont use my car on the street, maybe i can use the spec c, let me know what he says :eek:
how much power did you say you wanted? i know you already told me sorry, are you going to use these with the b20vtec setup?
 


rvm

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blinx9900 said:
how much power did you say you wanted? i know you already told me sorry, are you going to use these with the b20vtec setup?
Well right now i only have the stock b16b dude, i will make a b20vtec not in a near future, it will take some time, i want to know if the spec c cams can be used on the stock b16b, of course changing springs / retainers + ecu ;)
 


blinx9900

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rvm said:
Well right now i only have the stock b16b dude, i will make a b20vtec not in a near future, it will take some time, i want to know if the spec c cams can be used on the stock b16b, of course changing springs / retainers + ecu ;)
i have no idea as i have no experiece with them (the c's), best i can do is call blox (since its cheaper for me to call him). i do know many people with street driven b engines making 220 whp with blox b's though. i'll call him in a few days.:)
 


toy

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Hi slightly off topic, but still cam related. I have a EK with a few mods and I am looking to extract a little more performance out of it as I don't think it is at it's full potential.

Here are the mods so far:
B18C block
Balanced crank , rods and pistons etc
ARP bolts and studs right through the engine from top to bottom
Toda Pistons (Teflon coated)
Eagle rods
Toda high volume oil pump
Spoon Sports metal head gasket
Type R head (ported and polished etc by Lyn Rodgers, Auckland NZ )
Stainless valves
Toda spec C cams
Toda valve springs
Toda cam Gears (no not just for show, they have been used)
Toda timing belt (Red)
Skunk2 retainers
TWM Quad throttles (52mm)
Toda 4-2-1 headers
Denso 540cc injectors
SX high volume fuel filter
SX fuel pump (up to 1000hp)
Spoon Sports radiator hoses
Spoon Sports earthing kit
MSD external coil
MSD ignition control
Spoon Sports spark plug leads
Integra Type R LSD gearbox
Spoon Sports flywheel
Apexi exhaust (modified)
N1 Muffler
Tanabe under braces (front & rear)
Autronic ECU
Up graded engine mounts (Rally As Auckland)
Spoon Sports rear gearbox mount
Mugen front strut bar
Do - Luck Rear cross bar
Z10 Traction bars
EM Racing C Pillar bar
Tanabe rear sway bar
Tein Flex suspension
EDFC controller
Carbon bonnet
Varis body kit (Imported)
Spoon Sports SW388 15 X 7 wheels and Nuts
Spoon Sports carbon fibre mirrors

The car is mainly used for drag racing and doesn't do a lot of driving on the road. All the estimates I have had are with this setup it should have around 250 to 270hp at the wheels but at present we are only producing around 200hp.

After reading the posts above I am thinking that it could be suffering from the soft toda valve springs described above.

Any comments would be apreciated and any cam suggestions would also be helpful too.

Thanks.:)
 


rvm

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toy said:
Hi slightly off topic, but still cam related. I have a EK with a few mods and I am looking to extract a little more performance out of it as I don't think it is at it's full potential.

Here are the mods so far:
B18C block
Balanced crank , rods and pistons etc
ARP bolts and studs right through the engine from top to bottom
Toda Pistons (Teflon coated)
Eagle rods
Toda high volume oil pump
Spoon Sports metal head gasket
Type R head (ported and polished etc by Lyn Rodgers, Auckland NZ )
Stainless valves
Toda spec C cams
Toda valve springs
Toda cam Gears (no not just for show, they have been used)
Toda timing belt (Red)
Skunk2 retainers
TWM Quad throttles (52mm)
Toda 4-2-1 headers
Denso 540cc injectors
SX high volume fuel filter
SX fuel pump (up to 1000hp)
Spoon Sports radiator hoses
Spoon Sports earthing kit
MSD external coil
MSD ignition control
Spoon Sports spark plug leads
Integra Type R LSD gearbox
Spoon Sports flywheel
Apexi exhaust (modified)
N1 Muffler
Tanabe under braces (front & rear)
Autronic ECU
Up graded engine mounts (Rally As Auckland)
Spoon Sports rear gearbox mount
Mugen front strut bar
Do - Luck Rear cross bar
Z10 Traction bars
EM Racing C Pillar bar
Tanabe rear sway bar
Tein Flex suspension
EDFC controller
Carbon bonnet
Varis body kit (Imported)
Spoon Sports SW388 15 X 7 wheels and Nuts
Spoon Sports carbon fibre mirrors

The car is mainly used for drag racing and doesn't do a lot of driving on the road. All the estimates I have had are with this setup it should have around 250 to 270hp at the wheels but at present we are only producing around 200hp.

After reading the posts above I am thinking that it could be suffering from the soft toda valve springs described above.

Any comments would be apreciated and any cam suggestions would also be helpful too.

Thanks.:)
Nice mods, 270 hp whp i've only seen it on a B20 setup. (N/A Engine).

With that mods, i think you should be in the 205 - 230 whp, properly tuned, did you take your car to the dyno? what kind of dyno is it?

Remeber dyno numbers are different depending on the dyno. :nice:

In my country a lot of people switched from TODA SPEC C to Jun Stage 3 or Blox race camshafts (same specs as jun stage 3), and they got better numbers.

What's the size of your pistons?


Welcome to ek9.org :nice:
 


toy

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Yes the car has been on the dyno many times (dynapac hub dyno) and the last tune was carried out by one of New Zealands top tuners, so I think the tune is as good as it is going to get with this setup. I realise that dyno numbers are not everything and that they do change from dyno to dyno and that it is only a tool.

It is my track times that don't seem to be getting any better or my top end speed. The car has done a best time of 13.54 with a 99mph top end speed.

The car has all of it's interior (less the sound deadning off the floor and the fuel tank, as it now has a fuel cell in the boot). But the laws for roadworthyness (if there is a word) in New Zealand are strict and all the side intrusion bars and air bags etc have to stay, so I think the last time I had the car weighed it was around 1150kg's with me in it.

The pistons are one over size (it was a new block) 81.25mm

I am really looking to improve my track times and the dyno figures are really just a bonus. So I was thinking cams that came on earlier and lasted longer would be the way to go (Toda's in this engine change at around 6200rpm and the power falls off at 8900rpm) where the engine should be good to rev to 10,000rpm

I was trying to avoid going to a B20 setup, but if I can't come up with a solution I might have to sell this setup and invest some money in a K20 for the car.

So any help is apreciated, and thanks for the welcome. It's good to meet friendly people.:)
 


blinx9900

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what is your exact displacement and compression? what crank are you using? what octane gas is the tune on? 200whp is very low for a dynapack, that means your making about 170 at the wheels, which is very low for your list of mods.

2 questions:
why have do you not have a 2.0-2.1 litre?
why have you not just turbhcharged the car?
 


toy

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blinx9900 said:
what is your exact displacement and compression? what crank are you using? what octane gas is the tune on? 200whp is very low for a dynapack, that means your making about 170 at the wheels, which is very low for your list of mods.

2 questions:
why have do you not have a 2.0-2.1 litre?
why have you not just turbhcharged the car?
Not too sure about the exact displacement but the compression is 12.8:1.
I am using a standard B18c crank that has been balanced and polished.
The gas the car was tuned on is C12 (which is about 108 octane).

When I started building the engine 2.0L or even 2.1L were pretty unknown here and to be perfectly honest NZ is pretty small and there would only be one or two people here that would have had the know how to build a reliable bottom end to 2.0L. They are becoming more common now though. New Zealand is also quite spread out and I have to travel to get anything done to the car that I can't do myself. For example in the City I live in there is only one dyno and it is at least 30 years old. So I travel about 1000km's each way just to have my car dyno'ed (it's about a 10 hour drive and a 3 hour ferry crossing each way). If you want to use the good people in New Zealand and you live outside Auckland or Wellington (where I get my car dyno'ed) you have to travel a lot.

Like I'm off racing this weekend (racing Sunday) and I have to travel 600km's each way just to get to the closest drag racing track. (the one in Invercargill is being rebuilt and could take another 2 years yet).

To give you another example there is currently only one road going K series EK in New Zealand at the moment that I know about, I just don't think our fabricators, engine builders and head porters etc are as advanced as what they are in the US. Yes we have some good ideas and we can get things going and we have the odd person that is really good at what they do (like my tuner, as he travels to OZ to tune cars too). But the good guys are few and far between.

Two main reasons for not turbo charging the car are that I like the challenge of N/A and that I can go to the track and beat quite a few of the turbo cars (on a good day) and here in NZ they have their racing in classes and if I turboed it I would be in the 2wd turbo class that has cars doing 10 second 1/4's so we wouldn't be competitive anyway. Staying N/A we get to race against any 4 or 6 cylinder cars that are also N/A.

I guess I just prefer N/A really.

Wow, sorry for the long waffle. :shocked:
 


blinx9900

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hmmm, very strange, have you tried replaing the TWM unit with a good intake manifold? i know it sounds strange but ive seen a few people actually make more power with a good plenum intake manifold. what does your turner think the problem is?
 


toy

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The tuner has no idea and without spending mega dollars taking things off and putting them back on etc I'm really in the dark.

Yes I actually think it was making more power with the Skunk2 manifold and Spoon 70mm throttle body (seat of the pants stuff though as this tuner never had the car with the Spoon throttle body on it). So if I end up doing anything with the cams etc I think I will go back to the Spoon setup or if I can sell the TWM's at a reasonable price to purchase all the old stuff back (hehehe).

I had been thinking about soft valve springs with the Toda cams and then I read this post and it also talked about soft toda springs so I thought that might be worth a shot. Just not sure what cams etc to change to for my setup....... I thought I had it pretty right.
 



timster1200

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Hi All,

Very informative thread going on here. I have come across the option of buying Toda C package for my b16b which includes the following:
camshafts
valve springs
retainers
cam gears

Now I will be getting the hondata s300, and i have ITR injectors, Toda headers and a custom 2.25" exhaust (btw it's an eg with b16b conversion).

What i would like to know is, for a car that will predominantly be a street driven car would this setup be a waste or would it yield significant gains. Could people point out the possible folly's of such a setup and what would you guys recommend for such a car where street strength is the focus.
 


Joshm88

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Hi guys,

Very informative thread! I'm currently doing a build starting with a B16A2, mods so far are:

(car is used as a daily driver, with occasional track use)

Mugen dual layer thin head gasket
Jun valve springs
Jun type 1 retainers
Jun Anthropometic cam gears
Toda timing belt
J's Racing 68mm Throttle Body
J's Racing Tschukinoko carbon fibre intake
ITR intake manifold port and flowed to match the J's TB
Hondata S300
Spoon 4-2-1
NGK ignition leads
Denso iridium plugs
Exedy lightweight flywheel
Exedy Stage 1 clutch
Cusco 1.5 LSD

I currently have JUN Type 1 cams, but have not installed them yet as the engine is still out of the car!

What I would like to know is how safe would it be for me to run JUN Type 3 cams? As from what I have gathered they are designed to work best with high compression engines!

Bearing in mind will probably be upgrading to a B18C bottom end within a year, but will continue to run the head.

Would it be more suitable for me to settle for Type 2 cams? The reason I don't want to install the Type 1's is because they don't seem aggressive enough for me!

Help appreciated!
 


Joshm88

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Can we please make this a STICKY rvm, spend ages finding this thread lol
 


CSB

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Guys, i just wanted to ask you the following, due to the fact im not too tecnichal.

MMy car is currently running a B16B, stroked to 1.8 with itr pistons, cranks, etc, and CTR ecu and cams.
Ive come around a goor deal on a set of spoon cams, (around $700).
Its almost my DD and im not a speeding fun but i like my car to be responsive, and im thinkig about Ato-x a bit. Love to have track days, but there arent any in my country.

Do you think it would be a nice upgrade? Will i get more low end power or high end?

Thanks in advance.
 


Joshm88

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Guys, i just wanted to ask you the following, due to the fact im not too tecnichal.

MMy car is currently running a B16B, stroked to 1.8 with itr pistons, cranks, etc, and CTR ecu and cams.
Ive come around a goor deal on a set of spoon cams, (around $700).
Its almost my DD and im not a speeding fun but i like my car to be responsive, and im thinkig about Ato-x a bit. Love to have track days, but there arent any in my country.

Do you think it would be a nice upgrade? Will i get more low end power or high end?

Thanks in advance.
What cam profile are the Spoon cams?!

More than likely you will see good high end gains :)
 



Joshm88

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From what RVM posted these are the specs:
__________________________________
Spoon

Specs were kindly provided by Alan Chow at A&J Racing

A&J Racing :: :: MANUFACTURERS :: :: Spoon Sports

INTAKE lift - 11.53 mm, duration 256 @1mm
EXHAUST lift - 11.13 mm, duration 245 @1mm

___________________________________
Well stock EK9 camshafts are:

Intake lift - 11.5mm, duration 243 @1mm
Exhaust lift - 10.5mm, duration 235 @ 1mm


So I would imagine you would see some decent gains up top, and mild gains in the middle of the rev range, they are similar to Toda Spec A and Skunk 2 Stage 1 :nice:
 


RagingAngel

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Messages
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Do you think it would be a nice upgrade? Will i get more low end power or high end?

Thanks in advance.



specs:

-Spoon shortblock
-mildly ported ITR head
-SPOON CAMS
-cam pulleys (can't remember setting anymore)
-Spoon header
-decat
-Vision midpipe
-custom Ti-backbox
-remapped ECU
-stock fuel pressure/injectors

Spoon cams have this kind of potential.... but you will NOT see these kind of gains without the cam pulleys and remappable ecu PLUS the rest of the mods listed.
 


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