Thoughts On This Problem


Yeh tried a few different plug types in the engine, at first I thought it might be a problem with the spark since the largest bogging down is at peak torque and therefore peak cylinder pressure.

I'll try the tappet clearances, thanks :nice:
 
With the emerald you could always ditch the honda dizzy and replace it with a coil pack such as one from a ford zetec, not suggesting this could cure your problem but it would certainly eliminate the distributer.

This is the set up i have using dta management on a b18c with itb's

Have you tried it with out the foam filter yet?
 
My brother corrected me, it was tried without the filter a while back. At Emerald they plugged in a piece of equipment that eliminated the distributor but it still bogged down, but that will be the next thing to be looked into (getting a different distributor set-up). Could there be some interference causing the a problem with the injectors or spark?
 
Championship White said:
My brother corrected me, it was tried without the filter a while back. At Emerald they plugged in a piece of equipment that eliminated the distributor but it still bogged down, but that will be the next thing to be looked into (getting a different distributor set-up). Could there be some interference causing the a problem with the injectors or spark?
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Interference is a possibility worth looking in to, a friend of mine had issues with interference on a home made loom(he was using emerald also), cant remember the exact details was a while ago,

What set up do you have for crank sensor and trigger wheel?
 
seen allot of issues with emerald full stop when being used on VW 20v turbo engines, all sorts of weird and wondrous issues that never made any sense, as far as management goes i don't rate it at all,

taking a look on some threads other people are having similar issues due to crank sensor faults,, we had a weird running issue on a MK2 16v golf with ITB`s running on DTA and that was down to the crank sensor,

http://www.google.co.uk/search?sour...+ecu+issues&pbx=1&fp=fae3be6c71dc0e79&safe=on
 
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Ah... trigger errors - my least favorite subject.
I would, and will only ever use a 36-1 crank trigger with an aftermarket system, first off taking the primary trigger signal from the cam is tricky because of movement caused by the cam belt (cams driven by chains are marginally better). When viewed with a timing light the difference in accuracy between crank and cam triggers is like night and day.
I base my opinion on getting management systems running on a number of Toyota 4A-GE and 3S-GTE engines.

What are the chances that the VTEC switch over causes a load on the cam belt? This has the potential to cause the primary 24 tooth trigger to be missread, which should mean the ECU stops providing a spark and injecting (beware the systems that go on a "best guess" in the event of trigger error).
Can you change the VTEC engagement to happen lower down the RPM range to see if the problem follows the switch point around?
 
PhatBob said:
Ah... trigger errors - my least favorite subject.
I would, and will only ever use a 36-1 crank trigger with an aftermarket system, first off taking the primary trigger signal from the cam is tricky because of movement caused by the cam belt (cams driven by chains are marginally better). When viewed with a timing light the difference in accuracy between crank and cam triggers is like night and day.
I base my opinion on getting management systems running on a number of Toyota 4A-GE and 3S-GTE engines.

What are the chances that the VTEC switch over causes a load on the cam belt? This has the potential to cause the primary 24 tooth trigger to be missread, which should mean the ECU stops providing a spark and injecting (beware the systems that go on a "best guess" in the event of trigger error).
Can you change the VTEC engagement to happen lower down the RPM range to see if the problem follows the switch point around?
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AWESOME POST BOB,,

:nice:
 
phatbob said:
ah... Trigger errors - my least favorite subject.
I would, and will only ever use a 36-1 crank trigger with an aftermarket system, first off taking the primary trigger signal from the cam is tricky because of movement caused by the cam belt (cams driven by chains are marginally better). When viewed with a timing light the difference in accuracy between crank and cam triggers is like night and day.
I base my opinion on getting management systems running on a number of toyota 4a-ge and 3s-gte engines.

What are the chances that the vtec switch over causes a load on the cam belt? This has the potential to cause the primary 24 tooth trigger to be missread, which should mean the ecu stops providing a spark and injecting (beware the systems that go on a "best guess" in the event of trigger error).
Can you change the vtec engagement to happen lower down the rpm range to see if the problem follows the switch point around?
Click to expand...

ace!
 
something that i noticed nobody mention!!! it happened as once... a few years ago!! have you checked your valve guides?? a worn valve guide could make this as it stacks a bit on high rpms and you cant notice it if it doesnt burn any oil!! also a problem you may have is that your cam angles are very big for the compression your car is running.
 
At the moment it seems to be fixed and the solution seems to be drilling a hole in the fuel cap of all things.

With all the testing a replacement of parts in the ignition system, I am ruling it out for now, I think it's something to do with the fuel system. The drilling of the hole seems to have alleviated the problem but I don't think excess pressure in the tank was the problem.
 
using a fuel cell or standard tank?
 
...well thats weird. What lph pump did you drop in there? lol.
excess pressure in the tank would cause over fueling? Is this what I am understanding?
Do you see your fuel pressure going up around that RPM?
 
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Standard tank at the moment. Any thoughts on how the fuel could be effecting things? Cranked the fuel pressure right up and used an aftermarket pump but it made no difference to the problem a while back.
 
That seems nuts... but if it works you need to check that the breathers aint blocked I guess.
 
Yeh, it was a bit of a last resort, the trouble with this problem is that sometimes it seems fixed but comes back. So fingers crossed. Thanks for all the input!
 
Couldn't get it to bog down while ragging it on the dual carriage-way but it did it straight away today at a rally event.

Also got rammed by a millionaire novice-driver in an EVO 10 who refused to contribute towards body repair costs even though it was certainly his own ignorant fault. Some people have no sense of decency!
 
Championship White said:
Couldn't get it to bog down while ragging it on the dual carriage-way but it did it straight away today at a rally event.

Also got rammed by a millionaire novice-driver in an EVO 10 who refused to contribute towards body repair costs even though it was certainly his own ignorant fault. Some people have no sense of decency!
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Sounds like you had a barrel of laughs all round today:(
 
After a year, I think this problem might be solved.

It was a week before we gave up and put a standard engine in it and my dad happened to be reading one of the books I have on engine tuning and saw that a K series (Rover not Honda) had a similar problem where it lost power but ran fine because injection was happening 180 degrees out of sync and so the fuel was just dripping in instead of injecting. When this was changed in a rudimentary way (since we're not tuning experts) the misfire moved to 8,500 and was barely there (not like hitting a brick wall like it had been) and it also required more fuel to run properly so there must've been more power there too to make up for what was lost.

Fingers crossed that when this goes back to the dyno it can be solved. Some un-named 'professional' tuners we went to should get their heads banged together if this was the problem...
 
Update: Spoke to a tuner at InterPro Bristol who has had experience with Emerald and Honda and we changed the injectors from sequential to batch fire and it has all but cured the problem, due to the problems with trying to tune it whilst driving along it's not perfect but there is no more bogging down. Apparently on batch fire it takes into account the crank sensor and not the cam sensor as well which makes it more reliable.

Booked in for tuning in a month.
 
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