spoon

[blinx9900]

- knock on wood - so good.

wow, did you really just say that glad to hear your having great luck with them though I've only heard praise about those calipers...

 

[Anto-EK9]

I've looked and I've asked...Nissin will produce you the Spoon calipers unbranded if you agree to a minimum order.

Frankly, I don't feel like stocking up 500sets IIRC, for people who can't do a 50% deposit up front. Spoon is a publicly listed company in the Japanese stock market the last time I checked - they have money from various investors to do things like this.

Spoon calipers both twin block and monoblock use stock OEM Honda pad sizes. Their new 355 setup for the FD2, on the other hand I'm unsure of.

Dust seals aren't a problem - the calipers themselves can be rebuilt - when you have them apart, from what I recall, they do utilize a motorbike's dust seal, which shouldn't be a surprise considering Nissin's heavy involvement in the 2 wheel industry.

Did you give you price/minimum order amount? I would be interested and willing to pay 50% up front and Im sure others would too

 

[RagingAngel]

that was many years ago - at least 8 by my recollection.

knowing that it was 500 sets at the time, I didn't even bother inquiring any further.

having purchased their calipers already, I am not too keen on carrying on to find out more

 

[Bon87]

While on topic, whats the weight of stock caliper and spoon caliper?
Thanks...

 

[RagingAngel]

From what 've read, the stock calipers are 5.2kg while the twinblock Spoon is 2.4kg.

Now if I can only get myself to spend on lightweight 2pce rotors.... sigh.

 

[jason e-ek4]

2.4 kg per caliper is terrific! do you know if this is with them loaded with the pads?

 

[RagingAngel]

no I believe that is caliper only. Pads themselves are probably worth 1lb each I'd guess.

 

[jason e-ek4]

thanks for the great info

 

[britishracer]

Hmm...I know many Honda Civic and Type R users here love the idea of having cool looking Spoon blue 4-pot calipers in their wheels. It's also great for bragging rights I suppose. The truth of the matter is on the street in terms of increased braking performance overall, there isn't much difference compared to OEM. They 4-pots will do good for track days where it will see heavy use. Here is a thread I posted about braking performance upgrades on the ITR forum...

Ok, basics first. Especially if you are on a budget. I assume what everyone wants when they start thinking about tinkering around with brake upgrades is to improve the performance of their brakes on the circuit or on the street.

Assuming all parts of your braking system is in good working condition. Lets begin with changing a part at a time that will give a significant improvement to your braking performance.

In order:

Brake Pads - These are the first direct contact points of the braking system, physically at least. The compound and materials used determines how much stopping power you can get the moment you push the pedal. On a daily driven car, OEM pads are designed to operate up to around 400 degrees C only. However, OEM pads (on the DC2R) are also designed to give a very strong initial bite. Changing to pads with higher max temperature properties will prevent fading on demanding situations like on a circuit where you are braking constantly hard and giving the pads and discs little time to cool down. Higher performance pads even on OEM discs will feel different.

Discs Rotors - Next is the part that the pads grip to slow down the car. OEM discs are made from material that is designed to last a long time for normal road use and perhaps the occasional circuit blast. Of course depending on the wear left. There are many arguments to whether slotted or cross drilled are better or plain ones are sufficient. If you want to see a direct improvement in stopping power, then up-sizing is the only answer. On the DC2, EK9, DC5, FD2, each disc size is chosen according to the stock vehicle's weight first, then power. Of course having 300mm discs on the DC2 will significantly improve overall performance. But if you don't have more than 220bhp or drive on a circuit with a high speed braking curve, then it is a bit expensive. Having slotted discs will help cooling and and 'clean' the pads for longer pad life for sure. Then there is the question of material. Eg. Dixcel and Endless have discs that are heat treated to match brake pads with aggressive metal compounds.

Stainless Brake lines - Having brake hoses made of metal as opposed to the OEM rubber will prevent expansion and swelling under high loads. This translates into more stable braking pressure going through the system.

Brake Calipers - You may be wondering why the calipers are all the way down here. Well, consider that since pressure applied on the brake pads whether it is a single pot, dual pot, four pot or six pot in all shapes, sizes and weight is going to the same size disc rotors and pads, all the calipers really do is spread the pressure differently depending on design. The overall performance will not be very different if you only changed the calipers. Of course, the reason why racecars use multi piston calipers is because the construction of anything with an encased body is that it's more rigid. One of the weaknesses on the OEM single pot and NSX dual pot is that under high braking pedal force, the caliper flexes. In theory, an enclosed type caliper (min 4 pot usually) will be more resistant to flexing.

As for whether a single big pot or 2 or even 3 pots acting on a given brake pad makes a difference on braking force by means of spreading the force, let's just say that on the street or winding road there might not be any noticeable difference. The reason is that the force coming from the brake hose to the piston or pistons is the same. Which brings me to the next most important part of the braking system.

Vacuum pump and master cylinder - This component determines the amount of braking force going from the driver's pedal input to the actual brakes. Honda has upgraded the pump and master on Type R models compared to the base models. Don't go thinking about upgrading to a bigger part. for the weight of the DC2 and EK9, it is sufficient. Just make sure both components are in good condition. If you feel it's acting wonky, a rebuild of the master cylinder will fix the problem.

Some notes on spacers for stock wheels:
I assume that the OEM wheels offset for the UKDM 15" wheels are the same as JDM EK9 15", 96 Spec 15" and 98 Spec 16" - +50. The only difference is the shape of the spokes. For the EK9 and DC2 96 spec wheels, the spokes are a little curved allowing SPOON twin-block calipers to fit in without the need for spacers. On the JDM 98 Spec, all that is required is a 7mm spacer. No more. I am not sure about the UKDM DC2 wheels though, as I would assume that the shape is similar except being one size smaller.

About whether having huge offset is actually good for handling versus wheel load and geometry. I won't go into it here, but basically too much negative offset on stock control arms without more infinite adjustment won't help. Racecars have fully adjustable type control arms to compensate. Suspension geometry is a very sensitive thing. Advise: If you aren't sure, then don't go more than 8mm of stock. (+42)

 

[Dixcelbrake]

They don't put the clip in for a reason, I have the Spoon caliper on my race car and I have asked Spoon why they don't use the clip. They said its allow Pads movement inside the caliper for Cooling reason.

 

[JDM 101]

What's your opinion about 4spot spoon brake kit?I have a civic ek b18 swapped.I'm between spoon and endless....please help...

Get the Spoon. You can still use your EK's stock brake pads.

 

[Cyrix12]

OEM pads are better suited for the street.

The one thing I didn't like about the twin blocks is that is doesn't come with a clip to hold the pads in place. Why its a bother? The pads rattle when you steer, and they jump over bumps. The noise is loud and makes it lsound like somethings broken... I know because I get looks all the time when it goes clonk.

But all is fixed as I used the clips from the ek9 calipers and made it fit. I'm sure other users are experiencing this.

hihi...i know this is a bit late but i am facing exactly the same problem....very very loose sound...rattling all over the shop.....perhaps you can indulge me in how you manage to use the clips from the ek9 calipers??
Thanks

 

[jugbugz]

hihi...i know this is a bit late but i am facing exactly the same problem....very very loose sound...rattling all over the shop.....perhaps you can indulge me in how you manage to use the clips from the ek9 calipers??
Thanks

Its annoying and embarassing hey. People give me the look as if somethings broken or loose.

The 2 shafts that run across the caliper, you just need to remove the 2 shafts and put the clip on, then put the shafts back, hold it down with pressure and tighten the 2 bolts. Thats how I got mine in. I don't get those massive rattling sounds anymore. Never had a problem since.

I cleaned the clip with WD40 prior installing

 

[stevenEK9]

Good idea with the pad retainers

tbh with the noise of the Spoon N1 and the squeeling of the Endless pads i don't hear the knocking that bad

 

[Bon87]

This 'rattling' noise cant be that bad can it, where ever theres a spoon caliper thread, this rattle is always brought up

 

[stevenEK9]

You can hear it pretty well, apparantly though spoon made the calipers like this for cooling reasons, hence why i've just left it as it is!

 

[Bigskank]

Put a spot weld on the pads that works........

 

[Cyrix12]

oh gosh.....thanks my man....very very insightful.....

i will try it on my next visit to my mechanic.....does it only work wif clips from an ek9 caliper??...how abt dc2 or prelude calipers??

 

[stevenEK9]

98 spec dc2 calipers are exactly the same as ek9 calipers...

 

[jugbugz]

stevenek9: It depends on preference! I seriously hate any form of rattling sound that sounds broken. With the clip on, the pads still have movement but the sudden crashing knock sound is no more.

Bon87: It IS very bad! Trust me. You wouldnt pay that much to hear a knocking metal sound. Totally BullShi7 if you ask me.