K20 FTW? Maybe not!

[Vtec6000]

No harder than B swaps? wtf! I wish dude. Then everyone would have a K instead of B.

I quoted that straight from the mouth of a guy who has done several K swaps so I assume he is correct. What's so difficult about it? Most of it is plug and play with the conversion parts available. Hybrid racing even make a shifter box which bolts straight in no cutting. Give me a K swap to do any day of the week over putting a B series in a crabureted civic And the reason everyone isnt going K series is the cost.

 

[troopa9]

everyone is comparing the b18c to the k20 and forgetting the b20.
There is no replacement for displacement and with the b20 your getting the revving of a b-series and the displacement of the k, and depending on your mods you could easy carry power past 8k, plus the cost of a b20vtec is waaaaay less that the b18c and k20 so you cant get a bigger bang for your buck...
m opinion obviously

 

[jugbugz]

I quoted that straight from the mouth of a guy who has done several K swaps so I assume he is correct. What's so difficult about it? Most of it is plug and play with the conversion parts available. Hybrid racing even make a shifter box which bolts straight in no cutting. Give me a K swap to do any day of the week over putting a B series in a crabureted civic

You took the advice of someone who does it everyday? Righto. Have you seen some of the write up kswap projects at k20a.org? Steps are easy and straight forward but the amount of work and parts needed aint.

Things have definitely gotten easier with innovative parts done by Hybrid racing to name one but dude... its no where near as cheap or time consuming than swapping out a B16a for a B18C. We wish it were...

 

[jugbugz]

everyone is comparing the b18c to the k20 and forgetting the b20.
There is no replacement for displacement and with the b20 your getting the revving of a b-series and the displacement of the k, and depending on your mods you could easy carry power past 8k, plus the cost of a b20vtec is waaaaay less that the b18c and k20 so you cant get a bigger bang for your buck...
m opinion obviously

Yes its much cheaper, but lots of opinions on B20 and half of ppl would prefer B18C. Like me.

 

[troopa9]

Thats what it all comes down to dude.... preference!
ill keep my b20 thanks














but only because i cant afford a k lol

 

[Vtec6000]

You took the advice of someone who does it everyday? Righto. Have you seen some of the write up kswap projects at k20a.org? Steps are easy and straight forward but the amount of work and parts needed aint.

Things have definitely gotten easier with innovative parts done by Hybrid racing to name one but dude... its no where near as cheap or time consuming than swapping out a B16a for a B18C. omg

Some of those projects go to the extreme. b18c into a car that previously had a b16a was never going to be as time consuming. Nor would putting a K20 into a chassis originally setup for a K series engine. Putting a B series into a non vtec is a different story. Your doing this swap yourself so you can tell us once its done how hard it was, who knows maybe when it is done you might agree with those who have done the K swap many times and say its not that hard.

 

[corral]

Theres a lot more parts than that. And cost is more, unless your quoting Euros.

-New Shifter box
-3" Cat back exhuast system
-K-pro + Tuning (necessity) up to 1500USD or more depending where you live.
-Intake
-Complete oil/fluids change
-Radiator + hoses(may use stock ones inc hoses if dont correctly)
-Retaining Air con is 1 heck of a costly troublesome mod
-Retaining Powersteering is also costly and troublesome.

-Engine Mounts choice is a very tricky decision to make.
Your choice of engine mounts will determind if you could keep A/C and P/S.
Also certain mounts require you to have your whole front end converted into EG/DC2 parts like;

-LCA, fork (may also need to use DC2/EG coilovers instead of EK9)
-Powersteering rack
-Subframe
-Sway bars
-etc etc

Some may not know but, EG/DC2 subframe, LCA etc etc aint as rigid as EK9. This also becomes more costly sourcing out the front end of accident free EG/DC2.

K-pro ecu and tuning is one of the most expensive parts. Fitting the new shifter box requires cutting, drilling and sealing. So a lot of the cost also comes to labor. But much cheaper if done in your own garage and self(my route).

Theres a lot more small bits n pieces but as you can see, lots of planning and decisions to make.

Expensive and troublesome are the key reasons ppl steer away from Kswap. I'd be SPEWING if I were to go through all that to just have a K20a2! Hell no!!! JDM K20a is the damn minimum!

Corral, I'm sure your taking notes

lol yeah i've been doing my homework, but one thing is that k pro is only a neccessity on certain immobiliser equipped k ecu's ,the jdm dc5 ecu does'nt have an immobiliser built in so you don't actually need k pro to overide the immobiliser,which means you can knock that off the price.

i can do without aircon (don't need it in scotland)

power steering will be using a toyota mrs power steering pump or similar.

i have all the teg bits i.e subframe (including dc2 subframe bolts that are longer) steering rack,lca's, suspension forks.

already has ss exhaust (will obviously need fabrication to accommodate custom manifold but i'll worry about that when it happens)

stock rad can be used.

hybrid shifter for me lol..

there are a couple of other expenses e.g. shift cables,fuel lines,fuel rail,fuel pressure regulator...air filter...

this'll get me going and i can worry about the k pro,throttle body, etc later.

 

[corral]

Yeah and I'm still doubting about the price here since a JDM K20a alone will cost 4500 euro's over here. I've taken a look at swapping and it's so damn expensive. Doing it yourself with a EUDM K20a2 EP3 engine would be a lot more interesting, maybe the better alternative in a year or so, if prices are lower for parts.

the only reason i can do it so cheaply is that my engine cost just over 2k gbp and shipping is free,i will sell the full b16b conversion inc gearbox etc and this should mean it will nearly have paid for my dc5 k20a1 running gear,the expense for me will be buying the conversion parts.

i appreciate this cost does not apply to everyone,but this for me is the way it is.

 

[corral]

Some of those projects go to the extreme. b18c into a car that previously had a b16a was never going to be as time consuming. Nor would putting a K20 into a chassis originally setup for a K series engine. Putting a B series into a non vtec is a different story. Your doing this swap yourself so you can tell us once its done how hard it was, who knows maybe when it is done you might agree with those who have done the K swap many times and say its not that hard.

i'd agree with you here a lot of the projects on k20.org are done to extremes

from what i've read the hard bits are the power steering needs messing around with (and a/c if your bothering with that,i'm not so won't worry about that) and the exhaust needs fabrication.

wiring harness is supposedly 99% plug and play.
mounts are a straight forward swap.
subframe etc swaps over easily enough.

i'll spend the extra on the hybrid shifter as i don't want to cut the floor.

seems straight forward enough except for niggles here and there, minor welding of strenghtening on subframe mount etc.

 

[Championship White]

lol yeah i've been doing my homework, but one thing is that k pro is only a neccessity on certain immobiliser equipped k ecu's ,the jdm dc5 ecu does'nt have an immobiliser built in so you don't actually need k pro to overide the immobiliser,which means you can knock that off the price.

i can do without aircon (don't need it in scotland)

power steering will be using a toyota mrs power steering pump or similar.

i have all the teg bits i.e subframe (including dc2 subframe bolts that are longer) steering rack,lca's, suspension forks.

already has ss exhaust (will obviously need fabrication to accommodate custom manifold but i'll worry about that when it happens)

stock rad can be used.

hybrid shifter for me lol..

there are a couple of other expenses e.g. shift cables,fuel lines,fuel rail,fuel pressure regulator...air filter...

this'll get me going and i can worry about the k pro,throttle body, etc later.

I'd like to know more about the use of a MR2 PS pump, surely the alternator has to work harder to power the battery for it?

Is it an easy install?

 

[adee-ek4]

No garages in the UK doing these swaps? That's a good price really for a JDM k20 with low miles.

yeh gerry at performance tek does the k20 swap . has his own k24 eg. done loads of them! think its just over 6k for the swap .

 

[Vtec6000]

i'd agree with you here a lot of the projects on k20.org are done to extremes

from what i've read the hard bits are the power steering needs messing around with (and a/c if your bothering with that,i'm not so won't worry about that) and the exhaust needs fabrication.

wiring harness is supposedly 99% plug and play.
mounts are a straight forward swap.
subframe etc swaps over easily enough.

i'll spend the extra on the hybrid shifter as i don't want to cut the floor.

seems straight forward enough except for niggles here and there, minor welding of strenghtening on subframe mount etc.

I had a chat with the owner of Ice Tronix about the K series conversions and from what he has said for the most part its pretty straight forward with just a few niggles i.e fuel line setup. It take's them 4-5 days to complete the conversion, thats pull old engine out, Fully clean the engine bay, prep the engine bay, assemble engine with loom and fit.

P/S can be kept in the EK civic, if using EKK1 mounts(keeping EK subframe) the webbing of the bonnet must be cut off to clear the pump. If using EKK2 mounts(subframe swap from eg/dc2 is required with these) it clears no hassle.

They use a prelude shifter box so that's something to look into as it can reduce the overall cost of swap.

With regards to the immobilised ecu's there is a wire in box which can be bought to bypass the immobiliser. JDM ecu's have no immobiliser.

I'm not sure how much the parts for the swap are going to cost you sourcing them from the UK or States. But if it helps anyone, Ice Tronix are doing a package deal for neccesary bits needed to swap a K series into eg/ek civic. Cost of package is 2500euro but what you also get is there full support throughout the swap so you can call them if you run into any problems and they can advise you on how to resolve the problem.

 

[jugbugz]

corral

Huh? What is K20a1? DC5? i dont think A1 exists... unless its a jdm non type R that i'm not aware of? Is your engine is from the JDM DC5R?

K-pro is just more flexible. Still costs us $2100aud for a tuned K100 and $700aud more for the K-pro.

So what engine mounts have you decided to go for?

vtech6000

Thats just outdated...
These days you dont need to cut anything to have A/C and P/S as Hybrid Racing has made these custom kits.

Championship white

I've already done the MR2 P/S pump, make sure you get a good location... and no its fine for the battery... it draws 50A max I believe.

 

[jugbugz]

I'm not sure how much the parts for the swap are going to cost you sourcing them from the UK or States.

Parts alone to do the conversion costs between 15k - 20k AUD. Its what it costs everyone here from scratch... It makes B18C a bargain.

Luckily all my parts including motor came off another car that I had all parts stripped down to the bone from US. So it saves me a big hassle to source out parts. Looking around next year to do the conversion

 

[Vtec6000]

Thats just outdated...
These days you dont need to cut anything to have A/C and P/S as Hybrid Racing has made these custom kits.

Well maybe other members on here doing this swap don't wanna spend 300+USD on some lines and fittings to make there P/S work so it might not be "outdated" to them

 

[Vtec6000]

Parts alone to do the conversion costs between 15k - 20k AUD. Its what it costs everyone here from scratch... It makes B18C a bargain.

Luckily all my parts including motor came off another car that I had all parts stripped down to the bone from US. So it saves me a big hassle to source out parts. Looking around next year to do the conversion

That's a good bit more expensive than here. You can have a basic package fitted over here for a little over 6k euro / 11-12k AUD. Add another 700-800euro for a JDM K20.

 

[Championship White]

I've got the 'Hybrid Racing JDM K20 Conversion' DVD coming from the US..... Hopefully it'll be as good as Transformers 2 Doubt my girlfriend will want to watch it though...

 

[jugbugz]

Well maybe other members on here doing this swap don't wanna spend 300+USD on some lines and fittings to make there P/S work so it might not be "outdated" to them

Youl end up spending more if u don't use HR kit, that's if u want p/s and a/c

 

[jugbugz]

That's a good bit more expensive than here. You can have a basic package fitted over here for a little over 6k euro / 11-12k AUD. Add another 700-800euro for a JDM K20.

When someone does a k20 swap, they usually end up doing more than basic, if not now Then later. You won't be happy if your building a road car on a budget. If it's a pure track or drag car it's still the same. My friend completed his kswap ek months ago and I see what he went through. You'll end up needing to upgrade wheels and tyres for more grip and the list goes on. No one will settle for a 6k euro package unless that person under budgeted themself.

Tuning is another story, there's about almost 8000 tuning points on a kseries compared to about 1500-2000 point on a bseries. Tuning a kseries here alone is 1200aud done by a fully trained hondata programmer.

I wouldn't want to say it's cheap coz it'd mislead ppl into doing something that will smash their bank account bad

that's why b18c Is a bargain

 

[Vtec6000]

Youl end up spending more if u don't use HR kit, that's if u want p/s and a/c

Can't see anyone over here needing to keep A/C maybe in your hot climate it is a must. There is a guy over here that made up his own lines and used fittings from a donor car to make his P/S work so didnt have to buy anything. AFAIK he made a thread on another forum on how he done it, ill try dig it up.