is it worth it k swap?


fishpimp

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May 9, 2009
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Finally i acquire my ek9 2 weeks ago.Nothing special just a empty shell and a b16b with a roll cage.Gonna build her up just like my dc2r.Before i set on my direction and start dumping money all over again.My purpose for this ek9 is for daily use and occasionally some track events.If anyboday can just knock some sense into me before i make the next move.Is doing a k swap worth it?Can the ek9 still handle as well with the swap.In stock form with the b16b it rocks except for the lack of torque.Will post pics once my camera is back.Thanks all.
 


harvey j

PSN: DIRTY-JDM-B20
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Mar 15, 2011
Messages
709
the money you spend on a k swap you might aswell build a fully built B20

In my eyes the B Series belongs in an EK/DC2 and the K series in a EP/DC5.

But hey its your car and money so go with what you want and not what people on forums say:nice:
 


clockwoRk

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Jan 12, 2009
Messages
562
If you not dead set on big power then you'd save a lot of money just going for a B18C.
I've seen plenty of track/race EK K20A cars and they definitely handle. But bare in mind you have to spend more money again to get a gearbox with an LSD.
To my knowledge there's negliable difference in weight of the two engines. Not sure about on EK9s but on EK4s it's defintely better to swap onto a DC2 subframe to allow the engine to sit further back in the bay.
 



fishpimp

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If you not dead set on big power then you'd save a lot of money just going for a B18C.
I've seen plenty of track/race EK K20A cars and they definitely handle. But bare in mind you have to spend more money again to get a gearbox with an LSD.
To my knowledge there's negliable difference in weight of the two engines. Not sure about on EK9s but on EK4s it's defintely better to swap onto a DC2 subframe to allow the engine to sit further back in the bay.
awesome advice.Definitely a jdm dc5 k20a swap which include the Lsd.Its a big project for me.Be it time or money. have to take serious consideration.Dont wanna make the same mistake as before,i had a turbo ek4 making 400 horses.Which i can only drive on straights.Thanks for your reply.
 


crazy eyes

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Oct 10, 2007
Messages
368
if you dont plan on selling the car then do it. if you do then maybe just go for a b18c. You'll never see the money back that a k swap will cost you.

There is alot more potential in a k20. With a good in let mani exhaust mani and a k-pro you near as makes no difference at 250 with out going internal. With a b18c/b20 that will be aproaching its limits that kind of power.
 


689R

gentleman of hyper
Joined
Feb 29, 2008
Messages
2,938
the money you spend on a k swap you might aswell build a fully built B20

In my eyes the B Series belongs in an EK/DC2 and the K series in a EP/DC5.

But hey its your car and money so go with what you want and not what people on forums say:nice:
Why would a fully built b20 be better than a k20?

Such a rubbish viewpoint. K doesnt belong in EK's but a turbo does? Hypocrite yo.
 


Mikeh91

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May 26, 2011
Messages
117
Kswap costs 4.5k at a minimum, thats with doing most of the work yourself.

B18C can cost as little as 1k if you sell your B16b. So yea the B swap is a lot cheaper but has nowhere near the potential of a k20 without extensive internal work. To match the performance of a K20 with bolt ons you`d be spending close to 5k to get a B18 to a similar figure.

Tbh mate, if your baller and have money to burn go K.
 


KieranEG6

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I have been looking over this hundreds of times over the last 2 years.

From what i have geathered it seems to end up with around 245hp you will have to spend around £5500 minimum regardless b20 or k20.

-The B20 will be almost maxed out as a road engine and keeping good reliability at 245hp. You could push it up to 255-260hp but that would be a quite high comp big cam engine. With of course prone to be less reliable. More of a track focused setup
-Staying B series means you will still have the same setup engine bay and not have to adapt anything really. If you can change a head gasket and clutch on a B series you can fit a b20. You get to keep and re-use most of your original parts. You wont have to worry about any fitment issues of other B parts as its still the same setup.

-The k20 will be sat happily at 245hp with just bolt on mods if its a Jap K20, Uk ones are of a lower tune and generaly seem to need at least JDM cams to get past 240hp. But to push it up to 260hp you would only need a bump in compression and some mild cams. With that the motor would still be quite useable and reliable. With the option of pushing more or easily supercharging if wanted. Just to point out though that K20's are "More" relaible than B20's but they are not indestructable! Have heard of plenty of them gone bang aswell.
-Going K20 means you have to chop an engine mount off the chassis and fit a new one, adapt shafts to fit, adapt the engine loom to connect to the K20, have to get a manifold that will fit while swaped into an EK chassis, get a custom exhaust to fit, get a k swap intake kit or make one.Im not 100% but im prity sure you have to get a half size rad and make it fit on the N/S. Then you also have the hassle of selling all your old B series parts. (Big pain for me being in the Isle of man I would have to ship everything to buyers at much extra cost).

As for engine caracteristics.
-The K20 will be alot more rev happy and have a peakier power band up the top end. From almost all the Dyno torque plots i have seen of K20s they seem to have a dip between 4500-6000rpm but pull like a train from 6000-9000rpm. Even when tuned. I have only seen a very few with straight Torque curves.
-The b20vtecs have a longer crank throw so are a generaly a torqueyer engine. They usualy end up with a flater torque curve with more from low to mid range but they generaly run out of their power curve at 8000rpm (still quite a high reving motor though).

Its all down to personal preference realy. Im still yet to decide :angry2:
Don't want to go K20 and want more low mid torque. Go through all the hastle of selling all my B series parts (as i have tones of spares, ie gearboxes LSDs, shafts, heads, intakes, exhausts and much more). And Faffing around adapting my Civic to fit a K20.
Don't want to go B20 and want more revability. or just more power.

Me personaly Im steering towards B20 as its the easiest option for "me". If its not fast enough il just have to invest in more grip and shorter ratios.

But for somebody who has just bought a civic and wants a decent amount of power and reliability, quickly and doesnt mind spending around £5k-£6k then just do a K swap and never look back.

If you only have a bit to spend and dont want to spend mege money then just go 1800, get a spoon ecu and make do. (What i done a year ago, wasn't saticfied :angry2: )

P.s a k20 is said to be slightly lighter than a B series setup so wont make any advers effects on handling.
 


fishpimp

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I have been looking over this hundreds of times over the last 2 years.

From what i have geathered it seems to end up with around 245hp you will have to spend around £5500 minimum regardless b20 or k20.

-The B20 will be almost maxed out as a road engine and keeping good reliability at 245hp. You could push it up to 255-260hp but that would be a quite high comp big cam engine. With of course prone to be less reliable. More of a track focused setup
-Staying B series means you will still have the same setup engine bay and not have to adapt anything really. If you can change a head gasket and clutch on a B series you can fit a b20. You get to keep and re-use most of your original parts. You wont have to worry about any fitment issues of other B parts as its still the same setup.

-The k20 will be sat happily at 245hp with just bolt on mods if its a Jap K20, Uk ones are of a lower tune and generaly seem to need at least JDM cams to get past 240hp. But to push it up to 260hp you would only need a bump in compression and some mild cams. With that the motor would still be quite useable and reliable. With the option of pushing more or easily supercharging if wanted. Just to point out though that K20's are "More" relaible than B20's but they are not indestructable! Have heard of plenty of them gone bang aswell.
-Going K20 means you have to chop an engine mount off the chassis and fit a new one, adapt shafts to fit, adapt the engine loom to connect to the K20, have to get a manifold that will fit while swaped into an EK chassis, get a custom exhaust to fit, get a k swap intake kit or make one.Im not 100% but im prity sure you have to get a half size rad and make it fit on the N/S. Then you also have the hassle of selling all your old B series parts. (Big pain for me being in the Isle of man I would have to ship everything to buyers at much extra cost).

As for engine caracteristics.
-The K20 will be alot more rev happy and have a peakier power band up the top end. From almost all the Dyno torque plots i have seen of K20s they seem to have a dip between 4500-6000rpm but pull like a train from 6000-9000rpm. Even when tuned. I have only seen a very few with straight Torque curves.
-The b20vtecs have a longer crank throw so are a generaly a torqueyer engine. They usualy end up with a flater torque curve with more from low to mid range but they generaly run out of their power curve at 8000rpm (still quite a high reving motor though).

Its all down to personal preference realy. Im still yet to decide :angry2:
Don't want to go K20 and want more low mid torque. Go through all the hastle of selling all my B series parts (as i have tones of spares, ie gearboxes LSDs, shafts, heads, intakes, exhausts and much more). And Faffing around adapting my Civic to fit a K20.
Don't want to go B20 and want more revability. or just more power.

Me personaly Im steering towards B20 as its the easiest option for "me". If its not fast enough il just have to invest in more grip and shorter ratios.

But for somebody who has just bought a civic and wants a decent amount of power and reliability, quickly and doesnt mind spending around £5k-£6k then just do a K swap and never look back.

If you only have a bit to spend and dont want to spend mege money then just go 1800, get a spoon ecu and make do. (What i done a year ago, wasn't saticfied :angry2: )

P.s a k20 is said to be slightly lighter than a B series setup so wont make any advers effects on handling.
thank you.i really appreciate all your breaking down,i manage to secure a jdm k20a engine and gear box for 2500 usd...thats a steal/i have someone offereing me 2000 usd for my b16b setup which comes stock with the ek9.Given this circumstances would u go K?
 



KieranEG6

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thank you.i really appreciate all your breaking down,i manage to secure a jdm k20a engine and gear box for 2500 usd...thats a steal/i have someone offereing me 2000 usd for my b16b setup which comes stock with the ek9.Given this circumstances would u go K?
100% Kswap in your circumstace :nice:
 


_JT

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I have been looking over this hundreds of times over the last 2 years.

From what i have geathered it seems to end up with around 245hp you will have to spend around £5500 minimum regardless b20 or k20.

-The B20 will be almost maxed out as a road engine and keeping good reliability at 245hp. You could push it up to 255-260hp but that would be a quite high comp big cam engine. With of course prone to be less reliable. More of a track focused setup
-Staying B series means you will still have the same setup engine bay and not have to adapt anything really. If you can change a head gasket and clutch on a B series you can fit a b20. You get to keep and re-use most of your original parts. You wont have to worry about any fitment issues of other B parts as its still the same setup.

-The k20 will be sat happily at 245hp with just bolt on mods if its a Jap K20, Uk ones are of a lower tune and generaly seem to need at least JDM cams to get past 240hp. But to push it up to 260hp you would only need a bump in compression and some mild cams. With that the motor would still be quite useable and reliable. With the option of pushing more or easily supercharging if wanted. Just to point out though that K20's are "More" relaible than B20's but they are not indestructable! Have heard of plenty of them gone bang aswell.
-Going K20 means you have to chop an engine mount off the chassis and fit a new one, adapt shafts to fit, adapt the engine loom to connect to the K20, have to get a manifold that will fit while swaped into an EK chassis, get a custom exhaust to fit, get a k swap intake kit or make one.Im not 100% but im prity sure you have to get a half size rad and make it fit on the N/S. Then you also have the hassle of selling all your old B series parts. (Big pain for me being in the Isle of man I would have to ship everything to buyers at much extra cost).

As for engine caracteristics.
-The K20 will be alot more rev happy and have a peakier power band up the top end. From almost all the Dyno torque plots i have seen of K20s they seem to have a dip between 4500-6000rpm but pull like a train from 6000-9000rpm. Even when tuned. I have only seen a very few with straight Torque curves.
-The b20vtecs have a longer crank throw so are a generaly a torqueyer engine. They usualy end up with a flater torque curve with more from low to mid range but they generaly run out of their power curve at 8000rpm (still quite a high reving motor though).

Its all down to personal preference realy. Im still yet to decide :angry2:
Don't want to go K20 and want more low mid torque. Go through all the hastle of selling all my B series parts (as i have tones of spares, ie gearboxes LSDs, shafts, heads, intakes, exhausts and much more). And Faffing around adapting my Civic to fit a K20.
Don't want to go B20 and want more revability. or just more power.

Me personaly Im steering towards B20 as its the easiest option for "me". If its not fast enough il just have to invest in more grip and shorter ratios.

But for somebody who has just bought a civic and wants a decent amount of power and reliability, quickly and doesnt mind spending around £5k-£6k then just do a K swap and never look back.

If you only have a bit to spend and dont want to spend mege money then just go 1800, get a spoon ecu and make do. (What i done a year ago, wasn't saticfied :angry2: )

P.s a k20 is said to be slightly lighter than a B series setup so wont make any advers effects on handling.
Good post mate, rep added! Though I'd like to add 2 things:
- K20 will get you 6 gears forwards
- The price he paid for a K20 can be found in the UK too, if you can be patient

Imho I would never choose a B20 for reliability issues. I've read so much about them blowing up, be it due to poor building, be it due to relatively weak engines. I would not be surprised that if you want your B20 to be as reliable as a K20 you'd have to spend more than a K20 swap.
 


fishpimp

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May 9, 2009
Messages
31
cool...will update with some pics right after my holidays...My buddy ek3 running the k swapped and the handling is not that good,i guess my ek9 could be of a better platform for the k20a and he would take over my b16b.its a go i guess....thank you so much guys.
 


KieranEG6

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Good post mate, rep added! Though I'd like to add 2 things:
- K20 will get you 6 gears forwards
- The price he paid for a K20 can be found in the UK too, if you can be patient

Imho I would never choose a B20 for reliability issues. I've read so much about them blowing up, be it due to poor building, be it due to relatively weak engines. I would not be surprised that if you want your B20 to be as reliable as a K20 you'd have to spend more than a K20 swap.
Cheers mate.

Oh yeah i always forget the added fact they have 6 gears.

I know im also not the most confident on the reliability of a B20 build either but with my circumstances its just to much hastle for me to go K20. Plus I preffer their torque character, the look and fact of staying B series.
 


paul_os

paul_os jdmboy
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
260
I have been looking over this hundreds of times over the last 2 years.

From what i have geathered it seems to end up with around 245hp you will have to spend around £5500 minimum regardless b20 or k20.

-The B20 will be almost maxed out as a road engine and keeping good reliability at 245hp. You could push it up to 255-260hp but that would be a quite high comp big cam engine. With of course prone to be less reliable. More of a track focused setup
-Staying B series means you will still have the same setup engine bay and not have to adapt anything really. If you can change a head gasket and clutch on a B series you can fit a b20. You get to keep and re-use most of your original parts. You wont have to worry about any fitment issues of other B parts as its still the same setup.

-The k20 will be sat happily at 245hp with just bolt on mods if its a Jap K20, Uk ones are of a lower tune and generaly seem to need at least JDM cams to get past 240hp. But to push it up to 260hp you would only need a bump in compression and some mild cams. With that the motor would still be quite useable and reliable. With the option of pushing more or easily supercharging if wanted. Just to point out though that K20's are "More" relaible than B20's but they are not indestructable! Have heard of plenty of them gone bang aswell.
-Going K20 means you have to chop an engine mount off the chassis and fit a new one, adapt shafts to fit, adapt the engine loom to connect to the K20, have to get a manifold that will fit while swaped into an EK chassis, get a custom exhaust to fit, get a k swap intake kit or make one.Im not 100% but im prity sure you have to get a half size rad and make it fit on the N/S. Then you also have the hassle of selling all your old B series parts. (Big pain for me being in the Isle of man I would have to ship everything to buyers at much extra cost).

As for engine caracteristics.
-The K20 will be alot more rev happy and have a peakier power band up the top end. From almost all the Dyno torque plots i have seen of K20s they seem to have a dip between 4500-6000rpm but pull like a train from 6000-9000rpm. Even when tuned. I have only seen a very few with straight Torque curves.
-The b20vtecs have a longer crank throw so are a generaly a torqueyer engine. They usualy end up with a flater torque curve with more from low to mid range but they generaly run out of their power curve at 8000rpm (still quite a high reving motor though).

Its all down to personal preference realy. Im still yet to decide :angry2:
Don't want to go K20 and want more low mid torque. Go through all the hastle of selling all my B series parts (as i have tones of spares, ie gearboxes LSDs, shafts, heads, intakes, exhausts and much more). And Faffing around adapting my Civic to fit a K20.
Don't want to go B20 and want more revability. or just more power.

Me personaly Im steering towards B20 as its the easiest option for "me". If its not fast enough il just have to invest in more grip and shorter ratios.

But for somebody who has just bought a civic and wants a decent amount of power and reliability, quickly and doesnt mind spending around £5k-£6k then just do a K swap and never look back.

If you only have a bit to spend and dont want to spend mege money then just go 1800, get a spoon ecu and make do. (What i done a year ago, wasn't saticfied :angry2: )

P.s a k20 is said to be slightly lighter than a B series setup so wont make any advers effects on handling.
Iv read loads and loads of threads on this topic and this is by far the best and most informative response i have seen in regards to the pro's and con's of both engines so thanks for that. I would personally go for a k20 and will do next year hopefully... best of luck with the build either way!
 




grantek

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
309
In every way imo. A standard k engine is better than a standard B engine. A built K engine is better than a built B engine if all done right. B series is good if you on a budget but tbh if your going to build a car right then Kseries is the only way forward. I B-series where so amazing like every B lover tries to make out, then honda would've used them in the Fn2 etc. Honda developed a better engine which make more torque and more power yet some people still try and argue i don't get it
 



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