CTR N1 Crank Pulley


muteki

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May 28, 2010
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Sirs

What is the advantages and disadvantages with the CTR N1 crank pulley on B16A engine? What do I need?

Thanks
 


Sid-ek9

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Pros (that I've noticed):

Engine seems more responsive
Less weight
Less belts to change

Cons (again, that I've noticed):

No aircon
No power steering
 



Sid-ek9

PSN ID: sidders-88
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Yes...if you're willing to have no PAS or AC :nice:
 



abunai888

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Pros (that I've noticed):

Engine seems more responsive
Less weight
Less belts to change

Cons (again, that I've noticed):

No aircon
No power steering
all are ok but please add to the cons :

-oil pump failure need to check/replace often.
-it's a must to use an oil pressure gauge
 


Rich777

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all are ok but please add to the cons :

-oil pump failure need to check/replace often.
-it's a must to use an oil pressure gauge
I'll add to that,

Any solid crank pulley is bad news. I'm not going to go into detail why but the long but short is that it doesnt dampen crankshaft harmonic's. As well as the reason above, you'll also experience accelarated main bearing wear.
 


Jimbo

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I'll add to that,

Any solid crank pulley is bad news. I'm not going to go into detail why but the long but short is that it doesnt dampen crankshaft harmonic's. As well as the reason above, you'll also experience accelarated main bearing wear.
Nope!

With regards to the oil pump,people like to blame something when it all goes wrong, i know a guy running a N1 on his turbo civic for around 30k with no issues whatsoever.

Does anyone balance a clutch when they install one?? Thought not!! This is a greater rotating mass giving off far more centrifugal vibration at high RPM than an unbalanced pulley, plus the N1 is balanced from Honda :nice: and to double check I had mine checked and balanced to 9800 rpm and was near perfect

On the standard pulley you have more weight overhanging the end of the crankshaft resulting in higher stress levels on the crankshaft, with all the research i've done i believe this is why the standard pulley runs the harmonic damper and the N1 doesn't.

The standard pulley has to run 2 other belts from factory, if one of the pulleys on either the P/S or A/C was to buckle or a bearing die, this would create centrifugal instability and this is where the harmonic damper would come into effect.

theres a lot of people who like to have there 2 pence worth who have no real first hand experience with the situation, thats what i've discovered. it's like they have seen a thread on civiclife.net about a guy who's oil pump failed after fitting an N1 pulley, so this automatically means there bad, then everyone jumps on the bad wagon, not considering all the other factors of why the failure could have happened :rolleyes:
 


abunai888

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I'll add to that,

Any solid crank pulley is bad news. I'm not going to go into detail why but the long but short is that it doesnt dampen crankshaft harmonic's. As well as the reason above, you'll also experience accelarated main bearing wear.
the same can happen if you use stiffer/solid engine mounts ?
if oem damper can be affected from the extra vibrations ?
 


abunai888

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Jimbo maybe it's a bad luck who knows but a lot of cars had oil pump failures with n1 pulleys
mainly on bigger cc engines than the b16b.
the b16b stroke/rod ratio comes to play too...
 


Jimbo

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a lot of cars have oil pump failure with the OEM pulley on :)

see what i'm trying to get at mate.
 


Rich777

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Nope!

With regards to the oil pump,people like to blame something when it all goes wrong, i know a guy running a N1 on his turbo civic for around 30k with no issues whatsoever.

Does anyone balance a clutch when they install one?? Thought not!! This is a greater rotating mass giving off far more centrifugal vibration at high RPM than an unbalanced pulley, plus the N1 is balanced from Honda :nice: and to double check I had mine checked and balanced to 9800 rpm and was near perfect

On the standard pulley you have more weight overhanging the end of the crankshaft resulting in higher stress levels on the crankshaft, with all the research i've done i believe this is why the standard pulley runs the harmonic damper and the N1 doesn't.

The standard pulley has to run 2 other belts from factory, if one of the pulleys on either the P/S or A/C was to buckle or a bearing die, this would create centrifugal instability and this is where the harmonic damper would come into effect.

theres a lot of people who like to have there 2 pence worth who have no real first hand experience with the situation, thats what i've discovered. it's like they have seen a thread on civiclife.net about a guy who's oil pump failed after fitting an N1 pulley, so this automatically means there bad, then everyone jumps on the bad wagon, not considering all the other factors of why the failure could have happened :rolleyes:
It doesnt work like that. Honestly i'm not just making this up or talking out my ass (i know what your getting at with all the hear say stuff lol :nice: ) . ATI - The Dangers of Power Pulleys & Understanding the Harmonic Damper
 


Jimbo

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we don't use harmonic dampers on jet engines which spin at 40,000 rpm + which internally are very similar, everything is just balanced to perfection!

explain the clutch balancing issue?? physics will state that this will have more of a detrimental effect!

why would honda fit them to RB EK9's if the have detrimental effects? im sure honda did there research ;)
 

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Rich777

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the same can happen if you use stiffer/solid engine mounts ?
if oem damper can be affected from the extra vibrations ?
Nope any old vibration is different to something traveling up and down the crankshaft. Its the crankshaft that needs dampening directly.
 


Rich777

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we don't use harmonic dampers on jet engines which spin at 40,000 rpm + which internally are very similar, everything is just balanced to perfection!

explain the clutch balancing issue?? physics will state that this will have more of a detrimental effect!

why would honda fit them to RB EK9's if the have detrimental effects? im sure honda did there research ;)
It has nothing to do with balencing mate. Study that link. Think of a tuning fork when its struck and when the mixture exploded on the power stroke i.e the vibrations which travel down the rod to the crankshaft.

I know what your getting at with Honda. They did design it only to be on there race base ek9 though.
 


Kozy

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we don't use harmonic dampers on jet engines which spin at 40,000 rpm + which internally are very similar, everything is just balanced to perfection!
What are the critical speeds for the jet engines? How often does the engine pass through them in normal operation?

I don't get the internally similar bit. To a piston engine?
 


Jimbo

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What are the critical speeds for the jet engines? How often does the engine pass through them in normal operation?

I don't get the internally similar bit. To a piston engine?
:lol: piston jet engine!

no the similarity is intake,combustion and expulsion process a main shaft has different stages of compressor blades loading the shaft with unequal forces at different revolutions, similar to a crankshaft being loaded from piton compression and the fact that the engines need a stoichiometric value to run at optimum efficiency!

what do you mean by critical speeds kozy?
 


Kozy

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Critical harmonic speeds. The turbines we design at work have specified shaft critical speeds at which point the harmonic vibration can become destructive. The machine is designed to operate well above these critical speeds such that they only pass through briefly on startup. Since those harmonic speeds are never touched in operation, there is no need for a harmonic balancer. I would imagine the jet engines you work with to be much the same, normal operation is most likely well above the shaft critical speeds so need for a balancer.

In contrast, a crankshaft passes through its critical speeds many times in normal operation, and could quite often sit within that critical speed for prolonged periods of time, during which those harmonics would quickly destroy the bearings. That harmonic balancer is damping those out, which is fairly important on a road engine. On a race engine (i.e RBEK9), it is less important as the engine is assumed not to be sitting at constant speed for a prolonged amount of time.
 



Weasel

EM1 racecar
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Oct 11, 2008
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I dont know much about the tech side, but i have had experience with the N1 pulley.
2 seasons of hard HARD racing. Oils changed before every event.Thousands of laps covered and never had a problem.
I will be using the N1 pulley on my new engine.
If you have loads of cash, you should think about getting a fluidamper. They are a top notch piece of kit and worth every single penney.
 


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