Cages !!! What You Got


Dunsy said:
How would you do it?

Weld in thick plates then weld the cage feet to the plates or something?


John, Chizfab in Dalgety bay will do a full custom weld in cage for around £800 i think man
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Hmm thats tempting could sell mine for 400..... Then there the paint though but would look the bolloxs! :angry: Oh and it'll be safer and stiffer lol :p

Not really thought to much about welding yet...
 
nice heres mine

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great and quick response . cheers for all your input guys . really interested in the original cage u had in dunsy . hard to fit . any cutting etc required to fit it and is it a c**t to fit ??
 
nah, very easy to fit mate, you will need to cut the plastics if you plan on keeping them in but i just ripped everything out

Max (jokeshopbeard) bought it from me...I doubt he would sell it but everything has its price haha :D
 
If you really HAVE to have a bolt in cage, DON"T install one that has "side intrusion".

1) In a crash (God forbid) you'll get wasted. Seen it plenty of times before. Bolt in cages are not very good at spreading the impact through the rest of the cage and tend to break at the joints when hit hard enough. Most bolt ins that have side intrusion and A pillar bars have joints above or around the head, and right by your feet. In a side impact the joints will probably fail, and then you've got sharp objects being pushed in around your head and legs. If you're not wearing a helmet you're toast.

2) All the front cage legs will do is flex the floor pan out of shape.

I had a bolt in Mugen cage in my car when I bought it, and even that was rubbish. The X-brace pictured above would do more for rigidity that that cage. You'll probably freak out when I tell you, but it got cut up and thrown in the metal waste bin, it really was that CRAP.

If it's just the look you're going for, then go four point with a diagonal, and use things like fender gussets and three point or X-braces to stiffen the chassis. Like I said before, bolt in cages are asking for trouble, especially if things go wrong.
 
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Surely...on track, a Bolt in is much better than nothing at all
 
Dunsy said:
Surely...on track, a Bolt in is much better than nothing at all
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Maybe, depending on the brand, and the design. OMP make excellent bolt in cages but are pricey, and require extra footing plates welded to the car to make them qualify for the FIA rating that come with them (some models only). Some of their models also have weld in side intrusion.

I would never drive a car with a bolt in cage, period. The cages are just dangerous, end of story. I have seen the reults of accidents with cars that have bolt in cages and the results are not pretty.

Don't forget there are side intrusion bars in the doors of EKs that are way better than the side intrusion bar in a bolt in cage.

Another couple of things to keep in mind:

If you're going fast enough to roll your car you should really have a weld in cage, and if you are actually really racing (ie you need a licence to race against other cars) you should have a weld in cage.

Against other cars at a track day type "event" cages are not really a necessity.

If you really want the rigidity and the improvements to every aspect of handling that goes with it (braking, cornering, weight transfer, the list goes on), weld in cages are way ahead in every respect.

And don't let me catch anyone on ek9.org attaching their harnesses to the rear strut brace. That's just dumb.

Don't laugh, I've seen it before.
 
Hmmm

If Bolt In cages are dangerous, how can companies get away with selling them as what they are? They are not designed as Show cages, they are safety devices at the end of the day.

With regards to the side intrusion door bars, if something comes through the door bar thats already in the door (I know this is Seriously strong), then your gonna be pretty ****ed up either way, whether you have the extra padded bar from the cage there or not.

im not defending Bolt in cages as i know the weld in one is obviously the better option for many reasons BUT i do feel as though the Bolt in roll cage is going to benefit you in a bad car crash.

What you said about non competitive track days doesnt really stand either mate, a guy on our last forum track night rolled his 205 very badly and would have been ****ed without his cage
 
people who say bolt in cages are dangrous spend too much time on HT.com

im going to get a custom bolt in Chizfab cage at some point this year. bout 850 bucks, unless i can find out 100% if the OMP fits with the sunroof.
 
Some fair points Dunsy, all taken.

Companies can get away with selling bolt ins as most of the time a bolt in cage is all that is required in Japanese entry level motor racing, and some asian touring car classes.

Those Japs are crazy!

I didn't really want to tell the story, but a good friend of mine was killed by a broken piece of bolt in cage. The tab that the A pillar bar bolts to on the B pillar went straight through his helmet and into the back of his head when the cage deformed in a rear impact. The bolt had simply sheared off, leaving the A pillar bar flapping around, and nothing to stop the B pillar bar from moving. The bolts pulled out of the floor also.

That is a long time in the past, and one of the reasons why bolt in cages are no longer accepted for any level of motorsport in New Zealand.

There are no diagonals linking the rear strut towers to the B pillar bars and so in a rear impact the cage just folds, especially where the rear upright diagonals are only bolted to the B pillar bar (hope that makes sense).

Triangular shapes make a cage strong, and bolt in cages really have none bar where the diagonal goes across the rear.

It's my point of view, but it's shared by many here in New Zealand. If you really MUST have a cage, I would say go four point weld in, as you can have bars running across the car that will help in side impacts, as well as having bars to mount your harnesses on that are better than just an eye bolt in the floor.

Remember that for every inch that your harness stretches or spans from its mounting points, you will get 10mm of stretch in a crash. If you are mounting to the rear seat belt holes, thats a lot of stretch, sometimes enough for the harnesses to come off in a crash!

Four point weld in is easily removed, and keeps the dash intact.
 
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i'm sorry to hear about your friend, never good to hear things like that, id say in most cases bolt in's will do alot more good than bad, but i can see where your coming from in certian "freak" accidents they will do alot of damage, personally, i'm going to send my car down to customcages for a 8 or 10 point weld in cage, if it means the difference between being hurt and walking away, you see the rally cars tumbling away down hillsides and walking out fine, so id much prefer a weld in myself.
 
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very sorry to hear about your friend. That will certainly play on my mind now
 
As much as i would love a proper weld in cage i cant commit to Lowering the value of my car the amount that it will. It will also limit the amount of people who would want to buy it if i was ever to sell it.

I can see where your coming from though mate. **Goes off to look at weld in cages**
 
Any one got pics of a cage fitted without a fully stripped interior Id like a cage and would remove the rear seats but would like to keep plastics so its partly daily driver friendly. Interested on seeing if its possible without to much cutting, also Whats the gain in weight do for the handling espically as i wasnt planning on fully stripping the car will the handling suffer? Thanks in advance.
 
Handling increases ALOT for track use IMO, although ive never run without a cage...On the road it makes for a very stiff ride, sometimes too stiff
 
On the subject of bolt in cages I am considering one as dunsy said I dont want to lower the value of the car, the reason I want a cage is because id like to fit harnesses and do it correctly I have been considering a harness bar but god forbid I ever flip my car which in theory I shouldn't accidents do happen (see ijwhitemans EK4 I believe he rolled on a track day trying to avoid an accident) I dont want the roof coming down on my head while im held in an upright position by my harness, surley for light rack days a bolt in cage cannot be that bad the main bars running from front to rear have very few joints from what ive seen?

Thanks for the reply duns im sure I can cope with some increased stiffness on the road I have Cusco Zero 2 coilovers on the way which I believe are quite forgiving on the road whilst offering good on track performance. Hopefully ill get to look around a few peoples cars at the upcoming EK9 meet maybe some one with a cage can take me round the block (please :p)
 
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