Block: ITR or B20?

[Spoonson]

I guess this is a very simple question for some of you but this keep bugging me for months.

ITR
- more reliable for higher rev.
- thicker wall

B20
- better torque
- like my current set up, ppl saying i'll get more hp for using B20B/Z

So despite of the pricing issue, which one will you pick? (This is a DD car too) Please feel free to comment and giving advice.

Thanks.

 

[JayH]

My ideal build would be:

ITR Crank and conrods
85mm pistons
B20B block - the sleeves are actually thicker than B16/B18 blocks.

That will net you 1979cc, more than an original B20B, while maintaining a B18C rod/stroke ratio.

You guys in the US have it easy to find parts for this setup...

 

[blinx9900]

B20B block - the sleeves are actually thicker than B16/B18 blocks.

i think you have it backwards, ive seen allmotor guys crack b20 sleeves!!

i would go with the ITR all the way, or a sleeved b20 to 84mm with a balanced b20 crank. it depends how much each one cost...

 

[jugbugz]

ITR + bigger pistons = B20. But if your going to do this, then just put K20A to save the trouble.

 

[wildcat]

itr block ... reliable less power
B20 block .... less reliablew ... more pwer and torque

itr block stroked to 2.0 ... best of both worlds

 

[blinx9900]

itr block ... reliable less power
B20 block .... less reliablew ... more pwer and torque

itr block stroked to 2.0 ... best of both worlds

i dont think you can stroke an itr block to 2.0, it would have to be sleeved and bored to 85mm to achieve that.

 

[cyek9]

i think ur better off with the itr block mate, it handle more.

 

[No_Fear]

b20 is the cheap solution like plp said use b18C sleeved with 85-86 piston

 

[RagingAngel]

-First you establish the budget.
-Then you establish the power goals
-Then you get the bitches.

Seriously, I don't know if sleeving a block has gotten THAT much cheaper, but being biased that I am, I would run an 18C block and some close gears and be happy.

 

[Spoonson]

-First you establish the budget.
-Then you establish the power goals
-Then you get the bitches.

Seriously, I don't know if sleeving a block has gotten THAT much cheaper, but being biased that I am, I would run an 18C block and some close gears and be happy.

"I want to have a 210-230whp engine and it has to be reliable."

Thats my goal and regardless of the $ i have to spend at the beginning, of course i want to minimize the total expense and always looking for the most easiest way to archieve it.

Reason y no K20A, i want to keep my EK slammed~

Currently, i have:
- B16A with CTR piston
- ITR valvetrain
- Toda A cam
- ITR IM
- Mugen Air intake
- Spoon TB
- Spoon N1 cat back (No cat)
- P2T stock ECU
* running on Dyno Dynamic for only 159whp

Pending to install:
- Hytech Tri-Y header
- Apexi PFC

Any advice?

 

[RagingAngel]

Yes.

Don't install the hytech header if you want to maintain good ground clearance so you can run "slammed." Especially, if it's the production variant.

Here's a build you can mimic.
Cliffs on the motor:
ITR block sleeved and bored to 81.5mm.
Stock ITR crank-Crower rods-ACL rod and main bearings.
Wiseco 81.5mm 5cc dome pistons.
3" 'Magic' intake-70-68mm RPM Services throttle body.
RC 440 cc injectors
Import Builders ported ITR intake manifold.
Import Builders ported ITR head-stock ITR valves
(Portflow redid the valve job at my request and picked up a few CFM)
Toda C cams-Portflow springs and retainers.
Hytech ITR header (NOT PRODUCTION UNIT)
Mugen Twin Loop cat back system-no cat.
Hondata S300 tuned by B19coupe
1818.7 cc's of screaming VTEC Power

222.7 WHP/144.9 torque done on a dynojet.

Or you can do this too:
Honda-Tech.com: All Motor: !ll W!ll's B16 All-Gerbil dyno results w/ ITB's

having that extra 20-30whp is nice of course - but I'm sure this combination in a light chassis and proper gearing will not disappoint.

And hey... you've already got some of the same parts.

 

[jugbugz]

yeh, for 230whp, you really need some serious work. Stg 3 cams minimum as well as porting. 1.8 response well with larger TB 65-68mm MAX!

With the amount of money, no reason why I'd pass over a K20A.

 

[divinu]

ITR + bigger pistons = B20. But if your going to do this, then just put K20A to save the trouble.

I agree with jugbugz, you will be far better off with a k20A. less work and same amount of power around 230 hp. Personally I'm not a big fan of B20's, prefer ITR.

 

[EK9turbo]

The cost of a K20a is quite high compared to a B18c, what the best prices people have been seeing??

Raging angel... IBspec

 

[RagingAngel]

you guys must have some pretty deep pockets.

to assure you can get the 230-250whp from a K20A, you gotta have a proper tuner to begin with.

And then the laundry list of parts begins .... and where the prices have come down slightly in the states. I wouldn't even start this project unless I had 7-10k usd in hand.

You guys have to pay for a lot of the necessary pieces to be shipped over that are essential in power production like the header for example. That's already 1300usd or so plus shipping and whatever duties you will incur.

Power is easy when you have a healthy budget.

 

[rvm]

Power is easy when you have a healthy budget.

I totally agree with you.

In my country most racers that are running strong and good, use B20 blocks with wiseco 84.5 mm pistons, making 217whp + with Toda C camshafts, and a lot of head work.

Now the curious part is that some of them are moving to the K20A motors, since they start at a "higher level"

Let me give you guys and example, in my country a oem B18C from a 98 SPec dc2, they start modding this motor from 170 - 175 whp and 117-120 lb/ft of torque.

One guy here brought a dc5, totally stock, with stock cpu he made 190 whp with 137 lb/ft of torque.

Imagine that, he debuted with the dc5 at the race track, and he won the race, racing against highly modded dc2, glanzas, ek9.

Its your choice, but I'll go for the B20 the only problem will be if your tuner can build you a reliable B20

 

[JayH]

i think you have it backwards, ive seen allmotor guys crack b20 sleeves!!

I said thicker not stronger. Boring a B16/18 sleeve out to 85mm would cause it to be very thin, but B20 sleeves will accomodate the 85mms just fine.

If you ran 85bore/89stroke in a B18C you'd crack the sleeves as well. The main cause of blowing an engine in a B20B is not the sleeve anyway. Stock for stock B16/18 sleeves are stronger, but having a B20B block solely for the bigger sleeves is the cheaper way to go for an 85mm bore.

 

[RagingAngel]

I don't know what part of Asia you're from where you can bore a stock sleeve 16A/18C sleeve out to 85mm and think it is even safe to start the car! Maybe that's why strong "B20s" are so rare in Asia outside of Japan to begin with....they keep blowing up!

The largest piston any person with any common sense one could run as an overbore on a 16A/18C is 82mm. And even then, I wouldn't feel so safe in knowing it would last very long. Factory overbore has been set at 81.5mm.

And no, I wouldn't crack the sleeves running 85/89mm combo because I'd SLEEVE the block to begin with so it would be safe to run such a setup.

 

[ellanosv]

RVM, here a guy running a EG b16b stroked to 1.8L wins most of the times, against ek9s, dc2, dc5 and some toyos... he has a heavy foot and good skills (sponsored by spoon), here are some videos YouTube - ellanosv's Channel

Cheers

I totally agree with you.

In my country most racers that are running strong and good, use B20 blocks with wiseco 84.5 mm pistons, making 217whp + with Toda C camshafts, and a lot of head work.

Now the curious part is that some of them are moving to the K20A motors, since they start at a "higher level"

Let me give you guys and example, in my country a oem B18C from a 98 SPec dc2, they start modding this motor from 170 - 175 whp and 117-120 lb/ft of torque.

One guy here brought a dc5, totally stock, with stock cpu he made 190 whp with 137 lb/ft of torque.

Imagine that, he debuted with the dc5 at the race track, and he won the race, racing against highly modded dc2, glanzas, ek9.

Its your choice, but I'll go for the B20 the only problem will be if your tuner can build you a reliable B20

 

[JayH]

I don't know what part of Asia you're from where you can bore a stock sleeve 16A/18C sleeve out to 85mm and think it is even safe to start the car! Maybe that's why strong "B20s" are so rare in Asia outside of Japan to begin with....they keep blowing up!

The largest piston any person with any common sense one could run as an overbore on a 16A/18C is 82mm. And even then, I wouldn't feel so safe in knowing it would last very long. Factory overbore has been set at 81.5mm.

And no, I wouldn't crack the sleeves running 85/89mm combo because I'd SLEEVE the block to begin with so it would be safe to run such a setup.

Have you actually paid attention while reading? Thats not what anyone said lol.