Upgrading cylinder head components


W

Weasel

EM1 racecar
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
1,316
Guys,
i just wanted to know what the general consensus is while upgrading the cams in a 16b/18c engine....
If your upgrading to lets say....skunk stage 1 cams or buddyclub spec3's (or something else that's designed to drop in and run on standard components), would it be better to upgrade the rest of the valvetrain as well, or should the standard head components run reliably well for a long period of time?...

Im sure people on here have been at this crossroads before so i would be interested to ear what your decisions were and why.

Thank you.
 
You will need, just to run safe, new springs, retainers and timing belt.
 
It all depends on the cam being used. If it was me, I'd leave it all alone. If you're not using an aggressive enough cam to warrant upgrading springs etc. or higher compression then the gains really will be minimal and, I don't care what people say, you cannot feel an extra 10 BHP.

ITB's would be a bit more expensive than cams, but they'd make a nice noise, improve torque, look good, retain their money better when you come to sell them and keep the reliability of an OEM engine.

Just my 2p.
 
Championship White said:
ITB's would be a bit more expensive than cams, but they'd make a nice noise, improve torque, look good, retain their money better when you come to sell them and keep the reliability of an OEM engine.
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Well said. :nice:

ITBs and raised compression has the potential to see 30bhp gains in the midrange, if only a small increase in peak power.
 
Championship White said:
It all depends on the cam being used. If it was me, I'd leave it all alone. If you're not using an aggressive enough cam to warrant upgrading springs etc. or higher compression then the gains really will be minimal and, I don't care what people say, you cannot feel an extra 10 BHP.
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Myself and a friend are buildng up a cylinder head at the moment. We already have a set of Buddyclub cams we got cheap and we have all new OEM Dual valve springs, retainers and valves.
We have decided to spend the extra cash on a Hewland gearbox rather than throttle bodies. Maybe we can upgrade the intake a later stage but for now it will have to do.
We'el be assembling the head end of next week hopefully, and were getting conflicting advice from various tuners/drivers that these cams can run reliably and safely with the standard components that ive mentioned.
I know that putting upgraded valve train parts in there would be a nice addition and would probably improve reliability, but is it warranted considering the cams we have are designed to run with standard components?......
 
I thought you were going to use one in a road car for a minute lol. That would be mental!

Back to your question, if it was me, I'd get uprated springs and retainers for peace of mind, if this is used for rallying then there is bound to be a few misshifts occasionally (though I hope not for your sake with that gearbox :) ) and it gives you the freedom to rev higher than the stock limit without worrying something is going to go 'pop' when it's needed on a stage, also in the future if you want to replace the cams with something more aggressive you can easily do so. The OEM EK9 engine parts sell like hot cakes too so selling them shouldn't be a problem. :nice:
 
as championship white said. if your not going to run high lift cams you can risk using stock spring retainers. but in my opinion i would buy aftermarket springs and retainer to be on the safe side as skunk cams have been known to drop valves.
 
TBs give a massive improvement mid range. Unfortunately i dont have a true comparison because my before and after rolling roads are different but peak power on the first rolling road standard engine, maxim works manifold, was 152.5 whp. Peak power on the same engine (different rolling road) with TBs fitted 150 whp. So if both were true (unlikely) a loss of 2.5hp peak, BUT at 6000 rpm there is a 37bhp increase!:eek:
 
konradinu said:
as championship white said. if your not going to run high lift cams you can risk using stock spring retainers. but in my opinion i would buy aftermarket springs and retainer to be on the safe side as skunk cams have been known to drop valves.
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Weve decided on buddyclub spec3's, but afaik they were designed to run on stock valvesprings and retainers. We will use the ITR dual valvesprings and a new set of OEM retainers.

kiwi said:
TBs give a massive improvement mid range. Unfortunately i dont have a true comparison because my before and after rolling roads are different but peak power on the first rolling road standard engine, maxim works manifold, was 152.5 whp. Peak power on the same engine (different rolling road) with TBs fitted 150 whp. So if both were true (unlikely) a loss of 2.5hp peak, BUT at 6000 rpm there is a 37bhp increase!:eek:
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Thats mad!!!!!!
 
nice set up you will be running and good luck! I look forward to seeing some pics and vids! :)

But could you tell me what a Hewland Dogbox is please? lol :)
 
Kiwi what cams did you go for in the end? I'm hoping we can can claw some BHP out of the Skunk2 Stage2 for next season.

@Rambo - A dog box uses straight-cut gears rather than helical as they are stronger but MUCH noisier. The dog box relies on the driver to synchronise the speeds of the input and output from the gearbox when changing gear unlike synchro boxes like the standard EK9 has that do it for you when you clutch. So you can flatshift, meaning it's faster through the gears, but obviously it takes skill lol.

The downside is, if you're not a very skilled driver the dogbox won't last long at all and it's VERY expensive to run even at the best of times from what I've heard, which is why it's totally useless for anything less than a full race/rally car.
 
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Championship White said:
The downside is, if you're not a very skilled driver the dogbox won't last long at all and it's VERY expensive to run even at the best of times from what I've heard, which is why it's totally useless for anything less than a full race/rally car.
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That is absolutely spot on.
:nice:
 
Im not the driver lol!
Im helping a guy build an engine for an eg rally car.
He was using 1800 crank but now he's gone back to 1600 class.Had a bad accident last year so decided to run in a slightly slower class.
 
Weasel said:
Im not the driver lol!
Im helping a guy build an engine for an eg rally car.
He was using 1800 crank but now he's gone back to 1600 class.Had a bad accident last year so decided to run in a slightly slower class.
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Sorry to hear that he crashed out.
A crash is an opportunity to learn hands on,
...where others can only study and wonder.
 
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