pillow ball mounts ???

[JDM Jason]

hey guys im thinking of getting a set of tein super streets would i need pillow ball mounts or do we need them at all??? im getting mixed answers from shops in my area on wether eks' use them. help please

 

[rvm]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There are two types of suspension setup. McPherson and Double A Arm.

For McPherson (Nissan S15, subaru wrx) designed to have adjustable angle function, when the vehicle turns, the suspension turns along with it and thus it must use Pillow Ball Top mount along with it.
For Double A-arm, ( Honda Civic & Integra and others) the angle of the suspension does not move when the car turns. Therefore even with a pillow ball top mount, it does not serve the design purpose of the pillow upper mount, it becomes an expensive mod which serves no purpose.
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[blinx9900]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There are two types of suspension setup. McPherson and Double A Arm.

For McPherson (Nissan S15, subaru wrx) designed to have adjustable angle function, when the vehicle turns, the suspension turns along with it and thus it must use Pillow Ball Top mount along with it.
For Double A-arm, ( Honda Civic & Integra and others) the angle of the suspension does not move when the car turns. Therefore even with a pillow ball top mount, it does not serve the design purpose of the pillow upper mount, it becomes an expensive mod which serves no purpose.
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this is 100% correct, it was not designed for our cars, some people say there is still an improvement but who knows, i would buy them just for looks

 

[Jokeshopbeard]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that without the pillow ball top mounts proper camber adjustment would not be possible?

Especially a problem if the car is gonna be lowered by say.. 60mm all round...

 

[Dino-Spumoni]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that without the pillow ball top mounts proper camber adjustment would not be possible?

Especially a problem if the car is gonna be lowered by say.. 60mm all round...

For double wishbone cars like the ek9, the shock itself doesn't have effect on the camber adjustment. Its the angle of the knuckle, which can be changed by making an adjustable mount on the upper A-arm. Thats adjustable upper A-arm is your aftermarket camber kit.

"Pillow Ball" is kind of misleading because its actually a spherical bearing, which replaces the soft rubber contact of the stock shock (on our double wishbone cars) This causes more response and less movement in that contact area, but transmits more harshness and vibration to the chassis. It's overkill for street cars, but some people use them for autocross ect, even though there is hardly any lateral movement on the shock to begin with.
Honda type-r's actually have stiffer top hat rubber vs. a normal civic's rubber. But pillowballs are just too harsh.

 

[Jokeshopbeard]

Cheers for the info there Dino!!

 

[JDM Jason]

For double wishbone cars like the ek9, the shock itself doesn't have effect on the camber adjustment. Its the angle of the knuckle, which can be changed by making an adjustable mount on the upper A-arm. Thats adjustable upper A-arm is your aftermarket camber kit.

"Pillow Ball" is kind of misleading because its actually a spherical bearing, which replaces the soft rubber contact of the stock shock (on our double wishbone cars) This causes more response and less movement in that contact area, but transmits more harshness and vibration to the chassis. It's overkill for street cars, but some people use them for autocross ect, even though there is hardly any lateral movement on the shock to begin with.
Honda type-r's actually have stiffer top hat rubber vs. a normal civic's rubber. But pillowballs are just too harsh.

so does this mean that im better off without the pillow ball mounts cuz they r harsh on the chasis... i ask cuz i want the tein flex or ss both come with mounts

 

[Dino-Spumoni]

I would avoid it completely, your paying for unnecessary add ons if you go that route, especially on a car that you don't race every day (even then, it's disputed if it does help at all). If your looking for coilovers I recommend PIC Performance.

 

[SpoonCTR]

I would avoid it completely, your paying for unnecessary add ons if you go that route, especially on a car that you don't race every day (even then, it's disputed if it does help at all). If your looking for coilovers I recommend PIC Performance.

agree

 

[JDM Jason]

hmmm... so if i orderer the tein flex would the price be cheaper than the usual $1400 since i dont need the pillow ball mounts? and if they come with them would they fit on my hatch with the mounts ??? the reason i ask is i planned on getting the edfc as well and i think that is only compatible if u have teins with pillow ball mounts.

 

[blinx9900]

Flex comes with them, its not optional. just get them, you'll be fine, plus they look cool get monoflex if you can though, much better imo.

 

[JDM Jason]

sweet can someone show me a pic with a ek9 with pillow ball mounts installed pls

 

[xJDMEK9x]

Hi
I know im a bit late to respond dont know if you purchased your coilovers or not but I STRONGLY recomend getting the pillow ball mounts. I have owned a set of adjustable tein coilovers and I have had them on my EK9 for a couple years now and just today my coilover busted thru the stock pillow mount. yes you read correctly it busted thru the stock mount and put a dent in my hood from the underside. I bought a pair for the rear and they are not adjustable I found out when I recieved them. they are worth every cent I promise and they are not as harsh as every one says. the second you start altering your vehicle ride height or anything else for that matter you loose the factory comfort so keep that in mind when people tell you something is harsh on your car. You cannot combine stock components with after market cuz they dont work well together.Im speeking from experience. I hope this helps you out with your decision.

 

[blinx9900]

Hi
I know im a bit late to respond dont know if you purchased your coilovers or not but I STRONGLY recomend getting the pillow ball mounts. I have owned a set of adjustable tein coilovers and I have had them on my EK9 for a couple years now and just today my coilover busted thru the stock pillow mount. yes you read correctly it busted thru the stock mount and put a dent in my hood from the underside. I bought a pair for the rear and they are not adjustable I found out when I recieved them. they are worth every cent I promise and they are not as harsh as every one says. the second you start altering your vehicle ride height or anything else for that matter you loose the factory comfort so keep that in mind when people tell you something is harsh on your car. You cannot combine stock components with after market cuz they dont work well together.Im speeking from experience. I hope this helps you out with your decision.

You can run OEM tophats with coilovers, but keep in mind our cars are all 10+ years old, if the part looks old it should be replaced

 

[dozzy1989]

I've got MeisterR coilovers with pillowball topmounts (not camber adjustable)

The ride isn't harsh, infact I cannot fault it in anyway, they impress me everytime I drive the car

I think you get alot more for your money with MeisterR than you do with Tein

 

[blinx9900]

You can't compare a chinese copy coilover to TEIN, companies like MeisterR just copy another companies coilover, they have no R&D cost, as long as the copy is somewhat close it will be a decent coilover, the problem is they usually use inferior parts and since they have no RD cost like TEIN they can sell it for very cheap.

Of course your tophats do not have camber adjustability, you do not have mcpherson suspension, camber is adjusted from the upper control arm, not the tophat unless you have a DC5.

 

[dozzy1989]

The reason I mentioned that they aren't camber adjustable is because people had said there is no need for a pillowball mount unless they're McPherson type struts and mine have pillowballs... They're not harsh, noisy or crashy and the handling is ****ing amazing... Personally cannot fault the quality of the Meisters myself, inferior parts? I might have to ask Mr Meister for some input himself

 

[MeisterR]

I have been ask to chime in as there seems to be a discussion going on here.
Because I am not a trader on the EK9 forum, I am here purely as info based so please feel free to ask me if you have any questions or concerns.
I will do my best to answer them if I can.

You can't compare a chinese copy coilover to TEIN, companies like MeisterR just copy another companies coilover, they have no R&D cost, as long as the copy is somewhat close it will be a decent coilover, the problem is they usually use inferior parts and since they have no RD cost like TEIN they can sell it for very cheap.

Of course your tophats do not have camber adjustability, you do not have mcpherson suspension, camber is adjusted from the upper control arm, not the tophat unless you have a DC5.

First, I am a bit disappointed that you think MeisterR is a cheap Chinese copy company with no R&D cost.
I feel that it is a bit harsh especially you are in So Cal half way around the world, so you never seen MeisterR products.

MeisterR does do R&D and design coilovers to suit the UK Roads. What you have to understand is that factory do not "adjust" their products for everywhere in the world. They normally make ONE product, and the specification is based on their biggest market (AKA America ).

When we were developing the Zeta-S coilovers for the Civic, we took a B20 EG that is our Demo Car and basically step through the entire process. We took a damper and had it damper dynoed (which is over damp for UK roads as it was design for the American Market). With that in our hand, we were able to decide the "range" of damping we need. MeisterR dampers are linear valved damper (like most coilovers on the market), so it isn't very difficult once you established the maximum and the minimum damping value at high piston speed (> 0.2m/s).

Spring rate are tested, and the only way to do it is to try a bunch of different rate. We used everything from 5.0kg/mm to 12.0kg/mm.
The best combination we found for the chassis was F:8.0kg/mm, R:6.0kg/mm.

Then we look at the damper stroke travel. We want to pack in as much travel as we can, but of course people like to lower their car also so you have to take that into account. The good news is that because MeisterR Dual Perch Coilovers (we are not talking about TEIN Super Street here), you don't loose any damper travel when you lower the vehicle ride height. So we found the combination with the most travel with the shortest damper casing that will achieve the ride height we are aiming for, and pack that into the coilovers. I can say for the achievable ride height of the MeisterR Zeta-S coilovers, it will have more damper stroke travel than any other Dual Perch MonoTube Damper Coilovers on the market. We literally use every last mm available.

Then finally, we have to look at material. We use MonoTube Dampers because unlike TEIN, we don't charge alot of money and still provide TwinTube dampers; then give you a page of marketing info on "why TwinTube Dampers are superior for street use". The Top Mount is Anodised T6061, the springs are cold coiled SAE9254 Chrome Silicon Steel, the lower bracket are aluminum (to reduce weight) or strengthen double welded steel for MacPherson Strut Setup, and the PillowBall Bearing (spherical bearing) are Japanese Made.

Of course we did not do that for EVERY CAR, but once you have a target damping range, then you can use it as a "relative" to decide what is the best damping range for other car models.
So that is the process we used to develop our new range of Zeta-S and Zeta-R Coilovers.

Also, one of my “mottos” is that I do not sell any products that I do not use myself.
I am currently using a set of Zeta-R on my 700bhp R32 GTR.

While I am here, I'll chime in the PillowBall Mount Discussion also.
For the purpose of discussion, we will use the term “Pillowball” because it is difficult to re-educate all the customers to use the term "spherical".

We provide the Zeta-S Coilovers with "Harden Rubber" bushing in the aluminum top mount with our tested and specified 8/6 spring rate.
We found that is the best for use in the uneven fast roads we have in the UK.

We provide the Zeta-R for the EK9/DC2 Type-R as we found most of their owners are a bit more "track" oriented, therefore they don't mind giving up a bit of comfort for a little better steering response.
The Zeta-R use pillowball bearing top mount, spring rate are 10/8, and damping valving been increased slightly to suit.
The use of the pillowball mount increase steering response slightly as it still take out the rubber bush, but at the same time increase NVH (Noise, Vibration, Harshness) when compare to the rubber bush. We found that most EK9/DC2 owners are willing to give up that little bit of comfort for increase steering response, and that is the sole reason for the Zeta-R.

Otherwise, for most fast road use, I recommend the Zeta-S as that is what it was design to do from the beginning.

Oh, here is a picture of our test car riding on the Zeta-S coilovers.
(at that ride hight it still retain FULL damper travel.)

Hopefully this give you a bit more info about MeisterR and what we do, and maybe it will help change your opinion about us as "Another Cheap Chinese Copy Company to TEIN".

 

[iceman]

i dont know meister R and have never used its product or have experience of it

BUT

from all data provided and his answer to every post ive ever come across on forums im impressed and like the product from what ive read and most importantly and moreso than majority of coilovers out there primarily designed for honda on u.k roads

i was very close to calling jerrick at meister R to discuss coilovers and purchase set but ultimately went for another brand (very high end but now thinking i bit of more than i could chew as primarily a full blown race setup/designed for roads in japan)

if i ended up selling my current set id happily ring jerrick to discuss set of his for the simple reason they are primarily designed for road with occasional track use although if primarily track use i beleive he can supply custom spring rates