Mugen ECU vs. Camshafts

[MugenEK9]

Hi everybody.
I have Mugen ECU and don't want to throw it away, but I need more power. I'm thinking about changing Camshafts, but don't know witch one(a lot of them on market)
I like TODA's spec B's(quality and experience)295/285 and lift 12mm
One racer told me Skunk2 stage 1 are good. I also thinking about Buddy Club stage3(296/290 11.4/11.8) and Spoon's.
Off course I will change springs and retainers and I'm thinking about high compression valves.
About Head gasket. Wich one to chose?
Toda 0.6mm , Spoon 0.45(thinner then standard) , Mugen ?
I'm confused, because it is a LOT of them. Make just one, it will be easy for everybody, but NO. All of them want to make some money with small changes.
Please help me
PS. How about TODA high power pistons? Is it worth ithttp://www.todaracing.com/
http://www.spoonsports.us/home.htm
http://www.buddyclub.us./
http://skunk2.com/index.php

 

[blinx9900]

just get some skunk2stage2 cams, the stage 1 are like stock type r. you will love them trust me.

 

[ManosEK9]

Just for your information, the S2 Stage 1 have similar operation with the stock EK9 cams like blinx said with some additional power provided, and they cannot produce more power above the stock B16B rpm limit. Stage 2 produce power up to 700 rpm higher than that , and Stage 3 up to 1400 rpm above the stock rpm redline(10000 rpm!!) but recommended strictly for track to avoid engine damage.
www.skunk2.com

 

[MugenEK9]

Skunk2 stage 2 , witch one PRO or Tuner, but isn't it stage 2 is for TURBO cars?
Buy the way I don't trust them some how(Skunk2). My frend had cams from them , I don't know exactly what happends, but he did blow engine and this is the last what do I need.
What do you think about Buddy Clubs stage III?

 

[MugenEK9]

Do you know if any body made 200 WHP from B16B?

I had AEM short intake and mugen twin loop muffler.

 

[ManosEK9]

Skunk2 stage 2 , witch one PRO or Tuner, but isn't it stage 2 is for TURBO cars?
Buy the way I don't trust them some how(Skunk2). My frend had cams from them , I don't know exactly what happends, but he did blow engine and this is the last what do I need.
What do you think about Buddy Clubs stage III?

No, you can buy for both N/A and turbocharged applications.
Man you know what, its the first time I hear someone complaining about Skunk2 cams and I have no doubt that the engine did not blew up because of the cams and its silly to blame the parts for that, especially top brands. Too many possibilites. Engine being in extremely bad shape, improper tuning, incomplete job, or perhaps incapable tuner??
Top companies developing racing products like Skunk2, Toda, Spoon etc..... do not develop faulty products, instead they conduct researches before starting new projects. Their experience in several events - championships helps them a lot to develop top quality parts......
Buddy club makes also reliable parts, but since you ask specifically for Buddy club camshafts, I would not say that they are a first choice...........

 

[MugenEK9]

No, you can buy for both N/A and turbocharged applications.
Man you know what, its the first time I hear someone complaining about Skunk2 cams and I have no doubt that the engine did not blew up because of the cams and its silly to blame the parts for that, especially top brands. Too many possibilites. Engine being in extremely bad shape, improper tuning, incomplete job, or perhaps incapable tuner??
Top companies developing racing products like Skunk2, Toda, Spoon etc..... do not develop faulty products, instead they conduct researches before starting new projects. Their experience in several events - championships helps them a lot to develop top quality parts......
Buddy club makes also reliable parts, but since you ask specifically for Buddy club camshafts, I would not say that they are a first choice...........

Thank you , but don't get mad because I don't trust some "companies".
I preffer Mugen instead of Spoon , so what?
Question was , will they work with my Mugen ECU ? I am not changing it!
Since Mugen don't make camshafts I'm asking witch one will be better with out changing ECU.
As you said SKUNK2 is a trustable company, I will try to belive in that. So now Skunk2 Stage 2, Witch one PRO's or TUNER's series? They do have a High lift even biger then TODA's(12.3/11.8)

 

[ManosEK9]

Thank you , but don't get mad because I don't trust some "companies".
I preffer Mugen instead of Spoon , so what?
Question was , will they work with my Mugen ECU ? I am not changing it!
Since Mugen don't make camshafts I'm asking witch one will be better with out changing ECU.
As you said SKUNK2 is a trustable company, I will try to belive in that. So now Skunk2 Stage 2, Witch one PRO's or TUNER's series? They do have a High lift even biger then TODA's(12.3/11.8)

I did not get mad and when i said "etc" I meant Mugen of course......
As for your question, I don't know what are the capabilities of your Mugen ECU and if it can support such mods and be really beneficial..........I'm sure you already know the existence of better aftermarket ECUs (Power FC, AEM EMS) quite expensive but again you get what you pay for.......
And thank you for believing me for Skunk2 being a trustworthy company, but I would suggest make sure you trust a trustworthy tuner before end up having more doubts.....
And I'm talking about PRO camshafts!!

 

[MugenEK9]

What about your's Skunk2's, but not a PRO only TUNER series. I can consider even stage 2 (even my instaler said stage 1,I don't know PRO or TUNER he meant) with out changing ECU, but I have other problem. EMISSION TEST. Every 2 years. I pass last time for 2, with small problems. Will I have any problems with this?
RThis is stage 1 dyno
and price 305-05-0140: B16A-B18C 1.6/1.8L DOHC VTEC - STAGE 1
Price: $703.57
Are they same as EK9 camshafts?
Still skunk2 stage 1, impressive:
Intake:
264/11.9 @ 1mm/0.00 Lash?
Exhaust:
259/11.0 @ 1mm/0.00 lash
Ignistion: Factory setting
and Emmisions LEGAL

http://www.skunk2.com/installation/305-05-0140.pdf

 

[MugenEK9]

I did not get mad and when i said "etc" I meant Mugen of course......
As for your question, I don't know what are the capabilities of your Mugen ECU and if it can support such mods and be really beneficial..........I'm sure you already know the existence of better aftermarket ECUs (Power FC, AEM EMS) quite expensive but again you get what you pay for.......
And thank you for believing me for Skunk2 being a trustworthy company, but I would suggest make sure you trust a trustworthy tuner before end up having more doubts.....
And I'm talking about PRO camshafts!!

• Pro Series Stage I camshafts are not emissions legal.
Intake:
264/12.6 @ 1mm
Exhaust:
264/11.9 @ 1mm
• Skunk2 Pro 2+ camshafts are not emissions legal.
Intake:
270/12.8 @ 1mm
Exhaust:
276/12.0 @ 1mm
They even HIGHER the TODA's:


Primary Lobe Secondary Lobe VTEC Lobe
Spec A2 IN 220(6.0mm) 240(9.0mm) 295(12.0mm)
Spec A2 EX 220(5.5mm) 240(8.5mm) 285(12.0mm)
Spec B IN 250(11.0mm) 250(11.0mm) 295(12.0mm)
Spec B EX 250(11.0mm) 250(11.0mm) 285(12.0mm)
Spec C2 IN 250(11.0mm) 250(11.0mm) 300(12.5mm)
Spec C2 EX 250(11.0mm) 250(11.0mm) 300(12.5mm)


All specs are listed as advertised value.
TODA Racing Valve Springs must be used in conjuction.
Valve lash adjustment is set at 0.2mm cold.
Standard ECU is not compatible.
Check piston to valve clearance when installing camshafts.
High compression pistons are highly recommended with Spec C2 camshafts.

None of TODA's doesn't lift 12.8


And here we have Buddy club III+
Buddy Club Spec III Plus Camshafts are made with brand new blank chilled cast cores to ensure strength and flexibility to take advantage of our patent pending Lobe Forming Technology to truly optimize the primary and VTEC cam lobes. The Spec III Plus camshafts were designed to accommodate a wide range of compression ratios from 10.0:1 to 13+. These cams are our most popular camshafts to date! They are designed to provde a smooth and constant power especially in the low and mid range areas and throughout the rest of the power band. These are ideal street camshafts for anyone who wanst some extra power to their engines.

Ideal for stret use
Direct Bolt-On
Patent pending lob e forming technology for low to midrange torque
Provides smooth constant power throughout the power


band
Base Dyno: B16 w/ GSR Cams and GSR Headers 170.9HP, 123.8TQ
Buddy Club Dyno: B16 with SPEC III+ CAMS and GSR Headers 184.9HP, 129.4TQ

SPEC IIIPLUS

*Dyno Tested
237HP
218TQ

B18C1 Engine
$640.00

TIMING DURATION VALVE LIFT VALVE CLEARANCE
1mm OPEN 1mm OPEN
INLET 25° BTDC 45° ABDC 296° 11.4mm 0.008
1mm OPEN 1mm OPEN
EXHAUST 45° BBDC 20° ATDC 290° 11.8mm 0.009

Thank you for your help

 

[blinx9900]

i would not consider skunk2 to be as good as toda as far as quality, they started out by copying spoon and mugen parts, then later started to develope there own, in the begining there cams were known for breaking in half, but that was the past and there company and quality has improved a lot since then.

manos are you sure you have the pro2 cams? those are pretty big cams, i was suggesting the regular stage II cams...

 

[ManosEK9]

manos are you sure you have the pro2 cams? those are pretty big cams, i was suggesting the regular stage II cams...

No I have the regular stage 2 the ones on the dynograph you found and what most people choose...... but I was talking about the pro series described on the site. I don't know exactly what are the differences in specs between the two versions of stage 2 but pro are bigger indeed. Anyway, I do believe that the regular version is more than enough for a peak hp seeker

 

[blinx9900]

I do believe that the regular version is more than enough for a peak hp seeker

agreed

 

[MugenEK9]

I just won them:
Toda B camshafts B-Series 1 $499.99 USD $499.99 USD


Shipping & Handling
via Standard Delivery
(includes any seller handling fees) : $29.99 USD
Shipping Insurance (not offered) : --

Total:
$529.98 USD

 

[rvm]

I just won them:
Toda B camshafts B-Series 1 $499.99 USD $499.99 USD


Shipping & Handling
via Standard Delivery
(includes any seller handling fees) : $29.99 USD
Shipping Insurance (not offered) : --

Total:
$529.98 USD

Good price congratulations!

 

[jugbugz]

I just won them:
Toda B camshafts B-Series 1 $499.99 USD $499.99 USD


Shipping & Handling
via Standard Delivery
(includes any seller handling fees) : $29.99 USD
Shipping Insurance (not offered) : --

Total:
$529.98 USD

If thats for intake and exhaust cams then thats quite cheap. Just hope they are what they should be. Good buy! I would recommend Power FC ecu with commander. You won't be able to use your pretuned Mugen ECU with cams.

 

[MugenEK9]

If thats for intake and exhaust cams then thats quite cheap. Just hope they are what they should be. Good buy! I would recommend Power FC ecu with commander. You won't be able to use your pretuned Mugen ECU with cams.

Are you positive , so I can't use MUGEN ECU with them?
The price is for bought, guy needs money,so he put them on a BID, no one didn't , so I won

 

[jugbugz]

Are you positive , so I can't use MUGEN ECU with them?
The price is for bought, guy needs money,so he put them on a BID, no one didn't , so I won

Errr, your Mugen ecu is a pretuned and non-reprogrammable one correct? You can install a TODA Spec A cam without tuning but no way Spec Bs.

 

[MugenEK9]

Errr, your Mugen ecu is a pretuned and non-reprogrammable one correct? You can install a TODA Spec A cam without tuning but no way Spec Bs.

Can I use Skunk2 stage 1 then with Megen Ecu?
Because I check the price for Apex'i Power FC with commander for B16B 1996-98 and its from 699.99 to 1,100.00$

 

[jugbugz]

700US is a very good price for a NEW power FC. However, try looking for used ones, they will do the same thing and might cost you less than half of the new one.

I'm not sure about Skunk stg1 cams, but I know Spec As can be used on stock ECU, it'll give more top end. Just keep your Spec Bs because you got it for a good price, then get the accessories needed to match the cams and get it tuned with a power FC. No point doing something halfway like Spec A cams if you can afford to.