Energy suspension RTA...KOZY GET IN HERE


joe_thompson

joe_thompson

Engineering Tech
Joined
May 21, 2010
Messages
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Im thinking of useing some engery suspension rear trailing arm bushes, Now iv heard good and bad thing, but tbh on forums you hear alot of crap and alot of people dont know what there one about.


Calling KOZY..... i belived you have used them, any problems with them? Much benifits over OEM? I belive the rear end can become abit skitty over heavy brake? Is this massive or are people just being puffs?


Any one else shed light on this? Only if you have first hand experience with them?

Thanks
 
Ive heard good things about them. But I skipped this and have gone spherical all around.
 
Yea I got them. Initial thoughts were good, rear end much more planted and predictable. Cheap and easy to install too (install is one thing, removing the old ones is another entirely! :nono:)

Now, having had them for a while, I'm not so sure. The rear RTAs flex the way they do to induce passive rear steer in reaction to the suspension loading, as well as dynamically toeing in under braking to improve stability. If you remove the ability to flex, you remove this built in handling trait, which could work in your favour, or against it. Fitting these will scub off a nominal amount of that braking stabililty, by virtue of increasing the toe out from where it would otherwise have been. If you keep everything balanced, then this could work in your favour by increasing your turn in response under braking. If you mismatch a load of components like I did with my brakes, camber and ARB, then it makes the back end twitchy as **** and harder to drive. There are other similar effects on toe angle with regards to lateral loading, although I'm not sure of their effects exactly.

If you you are fitting low, stiff suspension and restricting it's movement anyway, then the downsides aren't going to be noticeable. In fact, if significantly lowered, they could well be beneficial because you'll be running in a different part of the suspensions toe curve anyway, in which case locking it down is certainly preferable. If you are keeping the stock suspension however, then you are going to notice some changes, and they won't necessarily be good. I still run quite high, soft suspension so the downsides were noticeable to me, if I keep this setup then I would like to go back to decent rubber bushes for the RTAs.
 
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Kozy said:
Yea I got them. Initial thoughts were good, rear end much more planted and predictable. Cheap and easy to install too (install is one thing, removing the old ones is another entirely! :nono:)

Now, having had them for a while, I'm not so sure. The rear RTAs flex the way they do to induce passive rear steer in reaction to the suspension loading, as well as dynamically toeing in under braking to improve stability. If you remove the ability to flex, you remove this built in handling trait, which could work in your favour, or against it. Fitting these will scub off a nominal amount of that braking stabililty, by virtue of increasing the toe out from where it would otherwise have been. If you keep everything balanced, then this could work in your favour by increasing your turn in response under braking. If you mismatch a load of components like I did with my brakes, camber and ARB, then it makes the back end twitchy as **** and harder to drive. There are other similar effects on toe angle with regards to lateral loading, although I'm not sure of their effects exactly.

If you you are fitting low, stiff suspension and restricting it's movement anyway, then the downsides aren't going to be noticeable. In fact, if significantly lowered, they could well be beneficial because you'll be running in a different part of the suspensions toe curve anyway, in which case locking it down is certainly preferable. If you are keeping the stock suspension however, then you are going to notice some changes, and they won't necessarily be good. I still run quite high, soft suspension so the downsides were noticeable to me, if I keep this setup then I would like to go back to decent rubber bushes for the RTAs.
Click to expand...

OOOOOOOOOOSH..... great advice there kozy :nice:
 
would never run poly pushes tbh, i know alot of people to to great effect, but............

Metallistic for a road/track car, spherical for race only
 
Not familiar with metallistic Steven, what are those?
 
metallistic is the "proper" term for the oem style bushes

couple guys i know used to have their cars setup by Mardi Gras who back in the day raced a few DC2's and prep'd a large number of them and would only use mugen bushes / spherical ones or a mix of the 2

in theory the poly bushes are a good design since the metal insert has free movement, but with the more complex design of a double wishbone setup they need to deal with a lot of different loadings which i can only see wearing them out quite fast..... there is also the problem that poly bushes are HARD, which they have to be to prevent slop seeing as they have a push fit insert, being this hard and having to deal with so many different loadings they can in fact bind and you loose some of the performance, hence why some poly bushed cars can be quite twitchy, which some people mistake as being "sharp"

be good if some proper R&D went into it and the metallistic / poly were tested back to back on the same EK chassis to compare geometry control and lifespan etc, would be curious to see the REAL difference

would love to run some spherical bushes in certain places on my car, just shame that i do still cover alot of road miles, might be something i consider doing with a spare set of arms, i know the likes of mardi gras used to modify the OEM arms to take quite standard "off the shelf" bearings which can handle the loading, opposed to the likes of PIC and hardrace whos bearings i assume would be custom spec'd for them
 
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i'm using HardRace which is a harder durometer like Mugen. I used it on the track once and i really liked it, its also my daily driver. For daily it's very nice as well.
4119401648_f728f2d985_b.jpg


Here's my install :)
i have rear disk :) « 98luder’s Weblog
 
Hi All,


We have alerts in place to help with any issue we can and seen this post.

We have a pivot bush available that has been tested and works a treat.

It comes with new pin and bush in the kit see picture

W61508.jpg


These are available from our Whiteline dealers just click this link to find on near you. Whiteline worldwide dealer locator for performance suspension or email us support@whiteline.com.auand we will help any way we can
 
Strange this thread appeared, i was gonna install my Energy Suspension RTA bushes tomorrow, i will get some pics up before, after and during.

i have heard getting the old ones out a bit of a pain
 
harvey j said:
Strange this thread appeared, i was gonna install my Energy Suspension RTA bushes tomorrow, i will get some pics up before, after and during.

i have heard getting the old ones out a bit of a pain
Click to expand...

Try and make a guide for some other users if you can?:please:
 
if you guys can get a hold of this tool it makes the install "easier"
4118631931_e5ef95657f_b.jpg


You can see there's a little lip on the driver to help as a guide/pilot. Then it holds onto the trailing arm and presses it out.

4118637435_375393a2b0_b.jpg

Good luck man :)
 
i was in the process of thinking about re bushing the car soon, glad i read some posts so i could opt against poly bushes.. i think i am going to go with the hardrace full set, but with a new set of OEM rear trailing arm bushes.

also, my steering has abit of play in it, and you can feel the bushes have perished, which is easier to feel through not having power steering. what bushes would i need to replace to remody this? and do hard race do what i need?

thanks

Lloyd :)
 
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