Brakes are frying my brain :S


My ek9 brakes were brilliant on a standard B18. Since it's boosted they can't handle the power..... Obvious!??! I've doubled the power. In fact a round snetterton which I do a fair bit, I was SLOWER when boosted then n/a purely because I was braking far to early to get speeds down.

Kozy- yes I know there far to big. They came from freakyparts indirectly. You'd think he'd know that there uses less hey??!! What sort of area would you recommend max that I can use?!!! With the 1"mc I know you're brilliant at brake maths ;)

Thanks to everyone else. I'm glad I'm not the only person having brake issues.

Also yes, still on the standard drum valve.
 
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Kozy said:
Should be yes, certainly enough mass in the rotors which is what you need.

EP3 brakes are basically the 262mm caliper on a 300mm disc, they're actually marginally less powerful than the 282s which is perhaps where the bad press comes from, as most people expect a gain in brake force with bigger brakes, not a reduction. In truth, the reduction is a good thing as it adds a touch of rear bias which is beneficial.

The ATR calipers are a fair whack more powerful, which will feel better but the added front bias will do you no favours.
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Would a less aggressive front pad reduce the front bias?
 
Murray said:
Do you have any pics of your brake setup? Just so I can see what they want to machine off.
Sounds to me your brakes will work if you use the whole pad.

Murray
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I don't have any pictures sorry. My cars up at Corten miller. I'm going to phone them and ask them for pictures/diagrams to show me what they mean. I'm not clear in my own mind either what they mean.

But as Kozy has said the piston area is far to big I don't think they will ever work.
 
V-TEC ABUSER said:
Right then Kozy. The area for the pistons in my calipers is 4.80. Does that mean anything?? Dunno if that is each or for all 4. They are the superlite calipers.

I'll have to get in touch with steveEk9.
The other option (which I don't like is this.

The hats for my brakes is fouling the side of the pad. Us as the pad wears down the caliper then hits the hat, so I'm only using half the pads then have to change them.
The company doing my car have said they can machine the hats down to 'fit' but when I'm using my car on track it seems iffy taking material away from the hat.
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I'm guessing they mean the backing plate of pad is hitting the hat rather than the caliper. Surely the caliper doesnt move!? I can only imagine the mounting bracket is wrong and the caliper is positioned too close to the centre of the disc. Does it leave much of an unswept area on the outer part of the disc?

Really dont know with the pedal travel though. Afaik that's the same piston area as mine and honestly the pedal feel is fine. Regardless it's probably best to switch to something lug mounted anyway. It's a lot of power to be messing about with. 300mm atr would get my vote.
 
If I was to get a slightly smaller disc. Say 305 or 300mm would the hat be smaller or just the disc. I really can't move the bracket more as it'll hit my wheels. Would that still work with the calipers??

James- it's just how they described it to be, didn't really think about it but yes, I'm guessing the pad backing plate is hitting, soooo maybe I could tickle a bit off with the grinder. I need a look at it.
 
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the brembo's i had were unreal, seriously good

they were a proper race caliper, 300x32mm discs, same discs & pad compound that buddyclub run on their time attack DC5 - mental

BUT

a mate of mine tracks his K20 DC2 which runs a 260bhp engine with short box - he upgraded to 300mm oem setup and gets on well once he added brake ducting


spoons are not good for a track car - yes they are good calipers BUT they are restricted by running OEM sized discs

300mm ATR setup is good, larger diameter for added leverage and can dissipate the heat better. width of discs is still the same as a 282 setup but if you still struggle then brake ducting can compensate for the width of the discs

beyond that, AP racing & brembo do some awesome kits


end of the day it comes down to what your budget is - AP kits are not cheap, i've spent 3.5k on the M3 brakes (full AP kit front and rear with Pagid RS29 race pads) but it does show, the car slows down like nothing i've ever been in

just be sure to fit some GOOD rear pads to the 262's as well as upping the front brakes, you would be surprised at the difference it makes
 
For better performance and brake pedal feedback you must change the 1.4 proportioning valve to ek4 or ek9.
Then you can add thicker front discs under your 15" wheels to absorb the more heat from the extra power. Such discs has the accord type r cl1 300mm 28mm of thickness
Of course it will better to add bigger brake discs in diameter but then you have to go with bigger wheels such as 16" or even 17" .
With 17" wheels there are lot of choices for big diameter and thickness brake discs
 
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Steven, I'm pretty sure the ATR is 28mm vs 23mm on the 282s, there's a fair whack more meat on them. I think the EP3 300mms are 23mm though...
 
Cheers Carman, updated the script on my site.

OP, I've added some options for you to my calculator. Fire it up, and select your the 'Wilwood (1.75") 310mm' front brakes, EK9 rear brakes and drum prop valve. Don't touch anything else, it's all set up for an EK. Whack up the power input to 380bhp and the speeds between 120 and 60mph. The power and speed inputs don't affect bias but good for checking the sort of temperature distribution you can expect.

With OEM pads front and rear, you'll see a 'Dynamic Bias' of 77%. ('Perfect bias' is 0%, where all four wheels lock at the same point.) If you've got more aggressive pads in the front than the rear, that might go up to 80%.

Now, 77% is MASSIVE amounts of front bias, and it's no wonder they aren't performing right. In the darker green, you'll see 'Front Brake Force' of 94%. Your rear brakes are doing just 6% of the braking here. Further down, you'll see 'Dynamic Weight Distribution of 77%. Really, those two figures need to match, and when they do that is when the 'Dynamic Bias' will be 0%.

Obviously, you are a long way off target. So let's have a look at what kind of changes will remedy that.

First things first, set the prop valve back to 'disc'. 'Front Brake Force' is now 89%, and the 'Dynamic Weight Distribution' is 78%. That will takes the 'Dynamic Bias' from 77% to 55%.

Next, try the smaller piston options on that size disc. The 1.38" pistons will take the 'Front Brake Force' down to 86%, and the 'Dynamic Weight Distribution' is now 79%. The 'Dynamic Bias' is now 40%.

This is about where stock systems sit. From here, you do the rest with the pad compounds. Selecting DS2500 from the drops downs for front and rear will set the 'Front Brake Force' down to 81%, and the 'Dynamic Weight Distribution' is now 80%. The 'Dynamic Bias' is now 7.8%, and that is about where you want to be for the best performance. :nice:

Obviously, take some time to play around with the other settings and make sure you've got all the other details matched up, for instance I don't know how heavy your car is, what the weight distribution is like (stripped out rear + turbo up front = more front %) or how sticky the tyres are. All these will have an effect, so set all those up and then re-do the procedure here, incrementally trying to get that dynamic bias down to around the 10% region.

Obviously the caliper fitment is a seperate issue which will need addressing. :nice:
 
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