Block: ITR or B20?


A B20 can still be reliable just dont go reving over 7.5K but if your wanting 230whp from a B20 your gona need to strengthen the block, a DC2 gurdle for one. If you want to turbo get a B20b, lower compression = better for turbo. N/A get a B20z1 but their rare to find.

A B18c would require alot less work and hastle to get 230whp and can rev to limiter all day.

With a B20 because of its torque you dont need to drop it down a gear to pull away. With the B18c you have to ring its neck.

Its basically down to your personal choice of where you want your power but 230whp is a gona need a fair bit of spending to achieve
 
From personal experience, I would go B20 allllll the way. The torque is amazing and addictive. I tried B16b, B16b stroked to 1800, B18C1 bored with ITR stroke, and B18C1 bored with Ls stroke. The last is my current setup and has given me 13.5 times on street tires NA. I started with a B16 giving me 160/105, B16B stroked to 1800 186/128, B18C1 bored with ITR stroke 193/139, to B18C1 bored with Ls stroke at 220/160.
 
Matt87 said:
If you want to turbo get a B20b, lower compression = better for turbo. N/A get a B20z1 but their rare to find.
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JDM motors regardless of year all had the higher compression quoted in the B20Z. It was only in the USDM/CDM (not sure about other markets) where the compression varied. Although the heads on the later model B20s appeared to be the more desirable units, IIRC, they had a larger combustion chamber...at least this is all what I seem to remember when I had an interest in going B20.

But imo, higher compression (to a certain degree) is always better for boost. Better response, less lag, and no need to crank the piss out of the boost either (depending on your power goals and turbo size of course - it's all relative)

Teamdiesel said:
I started with a B16 giving me 160/105,
B16B stroked to 1800 186/128,
B18C1 bored with ITR stroke 193/139,
to B18C1 bored with Ls stroke at 220/160.
Click to expand...

Got dyno charts of all these motors to show? Peak numbers are nice, but I would personally like to see the area under the curve if possible.

:drive:
 
RagingAngel said:
JDM motors regardless of year all had the higher compression quoted in the B20Z. It was only in the USDM/CDM (not sure about other markets) where the compression varied. Although the heads on the later model B20s appeared to be the more desirable units, IIRC, they had a larger combustion chamber...at least this is all what I seem to remember when I had an interest in going B20.

Yeah im from the UK. We have the B20b and B20z1. Like in states our compression varies

I can see where your coming from but it would be safer to turbo a B20b but if your gona turbo a B20 anyways you've got to strenthen the block and internal work. The B20b's are cheaper over here and easier to find thats why their more disirable than a B20z1. if your going to be doing internal work get a B20b, no point wasting time and money on something your going to change anyways
Click to expand...
 
Matt87 said:
A B20 can still be reliable just dont go reving over 7.5K but if your wanting 230whp from a B20 your gona need to strengthen the block, a DC2 gurdle for one. If you want to turbo get a B20b, lower compression = better for turbo. N/A get a B20z1 but their rare to find.

A B18c would require alot less work and hastle to get 230whp and can rev to limiter all day.

With a B20 because of its torque you dont need to drop it down a gear to pull away. With the B18c you have to ring its neck.

Its basically down to your personal choice of where you want your power but 230whp is a gona need a fair bit of spending to achieve
Click to expand...


Thx, actually i will stick with NA..

Down to now, I decide to go back to ITR B18C... but i believe it require those big cam and other stuff to achieve 230whp?

In fact, I'm more than happy if i can go close 220whp. Just not sure what i need (The cheapest way) to make it reach that...
 
Teamdiesel said:
From personal experience, I would go B20 allllll the way. The torque is amazing and addictive. I tried B16b, B16b stroked to 1800, B18C1 bored with ITR stroke, and B18C1 bored with Ls stroke. The last is my current setup and has given me 13.5 times on street tires NA. I started with a B16 giving me 160/105, B16B stroked to 1800 186/128, B18C1 bored with ITR stroke 193/139, to B18C1 bored with Ls stroke at 220/160.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the numbers. May I know which cam you were using when you had to ITR stroke?

Would you mind share more experience of building a B20 as well? What is the rev limit now? What piston you are using? etc..
 
I think dyno numbers are a good reference...but it's also moot to focus completely on them.

FWIW, the last EK I drove had 199whp/143trq. This was on a dynojet and you can see the graph below.

Nothing incredible about the motor. Spoon B18C shortblock, ported head, Spoon cams with camgears (known to be mild) and the Intake was J's styled, Spoon header, Vision midpipe and a custom Ti-exhaust backbox

The chip was custom with stock fuel system (which I found odd). The most expensive part on the build was the head. I feel that a ported head is a must if you're gunning for over 210whp, a proper header/intake manifold plus fueling is also necessary.

http://www.definitivedriving.com/images/camberwear3/091104-4sae.jpg
SAE graph.

FWIW, the car did a 13.490. I whored this timeslip/vid out before, but just for reference:
http://www.definitivedriving.com/images/camberwear3/timesliplarge.jpg

We ran out of tape unfortunately and didn't get the best run recorded....and yes... my reaction time was over 2seconds :p I surrendered from the beginning since there was a 10 second monster next to me...no way I was gonna:win:

http://www.definitivedriving.com/images/camberwear3/Run5.wmv

right click save as please.
 

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basically the same mods with each setup. Just the displacement is the changing factor.
 
Gotta love those torques. :)

Any of you actually thinking about getting the Brian Crower 2.2L resleeve kit in the future? :D
 
Teamdiesel said:
I always have graphs:)
e.jpg

1-1.jpg

km2.jpg

22.jpg

23.jpg

This is one of my old stock Integra Type R.
7-2.jpg
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Which camshaft you are using?

Another question, since i have a Toda A cam, would i have any p2v problem if i'm using B20 piston? And what CR i expect to get for this set up?

The torque is so attrative.... God, i'm still thinking, searching.... and think again, ask again, search again, ask..... repeately on the same question....

:angry2:
 
P2V is not going to be a problem as the Toda A cam is not that big. V2V may be an issue you'd be concerned with (as with any cam for that matter)

If you want the power that Team Diesel is making, you will need at least 12:1 compression. Not many people in Hong Kong know how to tune with hondata/crome properly.

E-manage, even the ultimate is a joke compared to the flexibility offered by them and the power FC? Probably too powerful for many of the local tuners to extract the full potential of your motor.

Unless you have deep pockets to purchase the longblock from the US/Canada I would be extremely wary of having a local shop build it. Otherwise, keep it simple and go with a drop-in alternative of a B18 and gearing. 200whp and over140trq is not unheard of.

The attached graph shows a Spoon shortblock with a ported head and Spoon cams with basic I/H/E and tuning of course.
 

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Those are some pretty nice torque curves! :nice:

I'd still prefer K20 even though it costs more. Better in the long run when technology gets dated. Otherwise a K24 + K20a head will seriously kick you in the butt.
 
RagingAngel said:
P2V is not going to be a problem as the Toda A cam is not that big. V2V may be an issue you'd be concerned with (as with any cam for that matter)
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if using OEM b20 pistons i think they will hit cause the valve reliefs are small for the non vtec valves. I had this problem when i used non vtec b18a pistons in a b16a block with CTR cams i had p2v contact :( i ended up enlarging the valve reliefs, replacing 4 bent valves, 3 angle valve job and new seals... problem solved :nice:
 
blinx9900 said:
if using OEM b20 pistons i think they will hit cause the valve reliefs are small for the non vtec valves. I had this problem when i used non vtec b18a pistons in a b16a block with CTR cams i had p2v contact :( i ended up enlarging the valve reliefs, replacing 4 bent valves, 3 angle valve job and new seals... problem solved :nice:
Click to expand...

Claying the motor is going to be essential for any thorough build. It is important to check the service limits of the block/head that you will be using too.
 
instead of the b20 stock piston, any piston which is good for this build? Please kindly give me some direction, brand and approx. price please.
 
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