Tegiwa manifold and Decat


I don't see the problem with quoting 7-12bhp - our reasoning...

Base car had a 98spec 4-1 Manifold which as we all know is already quite a bit better than the OEM EK9 manifold and is much better than any OEM 2.0" collector manifold found on a b16a and UK DC2. So to beat the 98spec by 7.2bhp, you can quite confidently say that it will perform even better!

Thanks
 
jesse888 said:
I do see what your saying and you are right.
But to find 10's or 100's of perfectly stock cars with owners willing to do these tests is virtually impossible. So tegiwa have done the best they can do by getting a stockish car and testing it. Obviously they are going to claim the maximum figure because they want to sell them, and of they did test it like you say then the price would be through the roof.

This is no doubt why they copied the toda, 1. Everyone loves toda parts 2. Toda no doubt tested there mani a fair bit more than tegiwa.
So this is obvious choice for them to make a copy so that people can get toda-type gains for cheap. If they did all the testing they would have to market same price as a toda one to cover costs.
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Yep, only really big manufacturers can afford testing like that and even they don't do it on that kind of scale I don't think. On top of that, Tegiwa just copied an already proven design so providing they did copy it well there's no need for them to prove anything, Toda and thousands of its users have done it for them. I am just going to repeat myself again, if they don't have the hard data behind them they should not be making any claims, such as ''should be good for 7-12hp''. That's just bollocks! If anyone asks on this forum what people think about the Tegiwa mani I am sure the general consensus will be that it is very good indeed and that's all they should be using when they try to sell their product. At the moment they don't have any hard data other than on a 98 spec DC2 with a Fujitsubo catback the mani can bring 7+hp increase in power. Great, so every owner of such specced car knows what to expect, but the rest is still just guesswork!
 
You are pretty naive if you think a Spoon Cat back for example will change the result. This is modifying guys. No one manufacturer has tried every cat back combination.

I really don't understand the 'just bollocks' remark. Did you read my last reply?

Thanks
 
Tegiwa Imports said:
I don't see the problem with quoting 7-12bhp - our reasoning...

Base car had a 98spec 4-1 Manifold which as we all know is already quite a bit better than the OEM EK9 manifold and is much better than any OEM 2.0" collector manifold found on a b16a and UK DC2. So to beat the 98spec by 7.2bhp, you can quite confidently say that it will perform even better!

Thanks
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No you can't :) You are quite right to point out the difference between the 98 spec and EK4 manifold, but what about the rest of the exhaust system? Would you not agree that with the Fujitsubo Catback and decat it was maybe the manifold that was restricting the power? If that was the case then surely you would see fairly large gains after changing it for a better one! Now on a stock Jordan, even if you put well flowing manifold on, how do you know that the OEM b pipe and backbox won't restrict the power gain to the point where it will be significantly lower than what you predict?
 
Yeah again they cant replicate everyone's exact spec,
Let's face it most catbacks perform the same job, they all add around the same power(if any) and most people buying a mani have already done the catback upgrade.
I'm on your side with the up to 12hp statement, unless tegiwa can prove such a thing they shouldn't really be saying it.
Be interesting to find someone with a stock ek9 or 96spec teg that has only this upgrade.
 
Cat back exhaust is always the first purchase. Then the manifold. People all over the internet claim the 98spec 4-1 is one of the best and people pay £250 for it all day long. Ours beat it by a country mile - the result isn't actually that dissimilar to 'the great header test' from years ago.
 
Tegiwa Imports said:
You are pretty naive if you think a Spoon Cat back for example will change the result. This is modifying guys. No one manufacturer has tried every cat back combination.

I really don't understand the 'just bollocks' remark. Did you read my last reply?

Thanks
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OK, I can see I won't convince you so I'm off... Yep, I read it (well after what I posted the comment anyway...). The bollocks was in response to your extrapolation of gains from one car on to another car. Now how am I naive in thinking that Spoon cat back will not change the result? If it didn't then you would go bust as there would be no need to buy any aftermarket parts!
 
I'm going to keep quiet about improvement figures in this one. ;)

All I'll say is the idea is to choose parts that work together... :)
 
I wadnt in any way trying slate just thought was high gains for a manifold anyways fair play tegiwa good gains id buy 1 wen im ready to change mine :nice:
 
Just make sure you research. What works for someone else may not for you.
 
jesse888 said:
Yeah again they cant replicate everyone's exact spec,
Let's face it most catbacks perform the same job, they all add around the same power(if any) and most people buying a mani have already done the catback upgrade.
I'm on your side with the up to 12hp statement, unless tegiwa can prove such a thing they shouldn't really be saying it.
Be interesting to find someone with a stock ek9 or 96spec teg that has only this upgrade.
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this is definetly not true, i have seen the difference over and over again, a good flowing catback makes a big difference, say for example my built b20 on the rolling road made way more power with the better flowing 70mm skunk 2 catback than the more restrictive mugen twinloop that was on previous!
most people,maybe, but not all, so all tegiwa really are doing is making a claim that has nothing to back it up properly! does this mean if i go and design a manifold and put it on my dc5 and it shows an increase of 10hp i can claim it will make 10-50hp increase? sounds good but not true!
 
Like I said - it's completely setup dependent. Their manifold made that power on a certain particular setup. I guarantee you that in some cases though the exact same manifold may cost you power (this goes for EVERY company). It's down to the builder of the engine to choose the right parts to achieve the required power band. Going by simple BHP increasement figures is it a bit silly really... It takes detailed planning :)
 
So what spec would a genuine TODA that you've just payed £1200 for loose power over an OEM manifold, be it a b16a 2.0", b16b 2.5" or 98spec 4-1?
 
jesse888 said:
Yeah again they cant replicate everyone's exact spec,
Let's face it most catbacks perform the same job, they all add around the same power(if any) and most people buying a mani have already done the catback upgrade.
I'm on your side with the up to 12hp statement, unless tegiwa can prove such a thing they shouldn't really be saying it.
Be interesting to find someone with a stock ek9 or 96spec teg that has only this upgrade.
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Tegiwa Imports said:
10-50bhp is taking it a little far :p
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why stop at 12bhp? the skys the limit and there are some very gullable people out there!
regardless i,d still consider buying one if i had a standard manifold!
 
Tegiwa Imports said:
So what spec would a genuine TODA that you've just payed £1200 for loose power over an OEM manifold, be it a b16a 2.0", b16b 2.5" or 98spec 4-1?
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I couldn't tell you... I'm more trying to get at the fact that there isn't a "one design suits all" header there.

It's exactly the same in the forced induction scene - You get person "x" recommending a top mount to person "y" for a (street) 300hp setup because it made the most power for him on his 500hp setup. Little did person "y" know that if he just went for a simple log manifold he would of had a much more useable power band.

By all means I'm not bashing your headers here - I'm just trying to educate people on facts and that they need to choose parts properly and not just go by simple "bhp improvement" figures. It's up to them though I guess... Research is always your friend. :nice:
 
Rich777 said:
I couldn't tell you... I'm more trying to get at the fact that there isn't a "one design suits all" header there.

It's exactly the same in the forced induction scene - You get person "x" recommending a top mount to person "y" for a (street) 300hp setup because it made the most power for him on his 500hp setup. Little did person "y" know that if he just went for a simple log manifold he would of had a much more useable power band.

By all means I'm not bashing your headers here - I'm just trying to educate people on facts and that they need to choose parts properly and not just go by simple "bhp improvement" figures. It's up to them though I guess... Research is always your friend. :nice:
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As you know our engines power band is right up top, now I'd expect nearly every manifold sold for these(decent ones) has been designed to help the engine make peak torque at higher revs than the stock design thus making more top end power.
To say you need to think carefully about mani choice isn't really as important with these(if staying N/a) if you stick to a top brand that's Seen countless gains then your winning I.e toda mani
Pointless trying to make more mid range torque on these so why waste your money?

Either way this is getting alittle off topic now.
 
Not necessarily, that depends on the application/engine setup. There are plenty of people out there that want the extra midrange over top end. You also have to consider where the top end dies off. I guess I'm just to struck on detail... I leave you all alone now ;)
 
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