Random spill of thoughts...older vs. newer car...debate?!


Zhlica

Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
62
I've had something on my mind for the last few days, weeks,...months? Probably months, yeah months will be right. It's purely off-topic and I feel the urge to talk about it, so anyone who opened this thread be warned that it probably won't be a short read but I hope you guys/girls on here came across the same thoughts once in your petrolhead years and can comment / spill your thoughts on this topic.

I've owned more than 32 cars since I was 17 years old, breaking into my 30 right now, ouch, I know. I've owned everything from slow and good looking to ugly and fast ones, and yeah, every combination in between.

Cars ranging from BMW E30 325i with a shorter gearbox, Fiat Tipo 2.0ie Sedicivalvole, Suzuki Swift 1.3 GTI with the sought after G13B engine pushing 115hp in stock form, Nissan Micra Super S, Clio R27, ITR 98 Spec with some JDM goodies like a M&M header and Spoon parts and the antepenultimate, an EK4 Sedan with full suspension and an all motor B20vtec. I've probably forgotten to mention a couple of nice cars but I think these stick out the most and will give you the big picture of my car history.

The search for a car that would suit me took me quite a while, hence so many cars. The main reason for this being not knowing what I want from a car. Luckily my car-owning-path was lead to a brand spanking new Clio R27. Suddenly I knew what I want from a car, yeah it's that good. After quite a while I decided that the running costs for the car were too high and truth be told, in retrospective the engine isn't a gem and the car is quite heavy. In my search for a replacement I tried a Ford Focus RS mk1 with 325hp, Clio RS169 and an ITR 98 Spec. After driving the ITR on a twisty road, I had to have it. I probably don't have to go any deeper regarding my car history than this. The main thing I learned in the last few years is that I really like how the japanese do their performance cars.

I'm sure that I'm not the only one who has such a story to tell, so I'll leave it like this.

The last 2 years have been quite a roller coaster with a big plunge at the beginning and I had to sell my B20vtec sedan before I could use it for what it was planned, daily and track use. The thing that bugs me the most is not the pile of money that I lost with it but the fact that I couldn't enjoy my hard work of over 13 months and tune the car further to my liking.

Until this point I have learned a couple of things:

Number 1 - I don't like boring cars with no pedigree. I'd be rather spending my time in an old banger with some character than in a newer car, amm, let's say a Corsa 1.2. Why a Corsa? I mean seriously.

Number 2 - new cars are not always better (both cars of the same trade). Example you say? R27 vs. ITR. The Clio drives close to the ITR, the chassis is stiffer, the steering is quicker and with more feedback, the Recaros are wicked,...but does it do anything that I search for in a car well, better? No, definetely no.

Number 3 - putting money into an old car equals money thrown out of the window. I don't have that luck that I could ever sell a tuned older car for the amount of money, never mind the time, that was put in it, not even close. Stripping the parts and then selling them piece by piece and the car almost close to stock was never my thing and don't forget my luck.

Number 4 - buying a new car equals money thrown out the window, then going down to the money, spilling gasoline over it, lighting a match....well, you can picture what happens next.

I guess you guys have all encountered the same thing, either from your own experience or from someone you know.

Now comes the tricky part which I cannot decipher. How do you decide if you should have and old car and tune it or rather buy a newer one and tune that one? Yes, after all those years and all those cars I still don't have a recepie for this conundrum. I find it awkwardly unpleasant to simplify the answer down to "whatever you want". I intensionaly didn't put afford into the answer. Lower down you will see why.

Working my way through different aspects of this question and trying to find an objective answer I always find different thoughts racing through my mind but there is one thing that I always think of, in every scenario unfolding in front of me, money. If I would s*** golden bricks things would be easier. Since I don't have the luxury of s***ing such a valuable substance, things get a little more complicated.

The question above arose because there is so much rolling metal out their on the market. For instance, you can buy an EK4 for less than 2k€ or even get a Nissan Primera P11 GT for less than 1k€. That is some fine engineering from the japanese for that money. Fast, pretty reliable, tunable,.... In stock form both are pretty decent and if you splash some cash on them they can get pretty serious. With some decent suspension and engine work you'd probably be somewhere in the 4k€ region for the EK4 and 2.5-3k€ for the Primera. The thing that bugs me here is that the tuning is 2-3 times the value of the cars. For a bit more than 4k €, let's say 6-7k €, a whole new group of cars opens up to you. Opel Astra OPC, GPA, Focus ST with that sweet 5 pot,...

And then it hits me...spend 2-3 times the value of the car on it and never get it back? Save up for something newer? When is old too old? Should I actually be worried getting my money back if I tune an old car, any car?...

I guess the answer for my question above is pretty simple and it's the one answer I've mentioned before and really hate, "whatever you want".

Maybe you guys here can put down your thoughts on this question, what you've tried, what you've learned,....share your experience. I think the question seems fairly simple at first glance but the more you think about it the more layers it gets.

Thank you for reading!
 


xxxencorexxx

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2014
Messages
1,122
I've had something on my mind for the last few days, weeks,...months? Probably months, yeah months will be right. It's purely off-topic and I feel the urge to talk about it, so anyone who opened this thread be warned that it probably won't be a short read but I hope you guys/girls on here came across the same thoughts once in your petrolhead years and can comment / spill your thoughts on this topic.

I've owned more than 32 cars since I was 17 years old, breaking into my 30 right now, ouch, I know. I've owned everything from slow and good looking to ugly and fast ones, and yeah, every combination in between.

Cars ranging from BMW E30 325i with a shorter gearbox, Fiat Tipo 2.0ie Sedicivalvole, Suzuki Swift 1.3 GTI with the sought after G13B engine pushing 115hp in stock form, Nissan Micra Super S, Clio R27, ITR 98 Spec with some JDM goodies like a M&M header and Spoon parts and the antepenultimate, an EK4 Sedan with full suspension and an all motor B20vtec. I've probably forgotten to mention a couple of nice cars but I think these stick out the most and will give you the big picture of my car history.

The search for a car that would suit me took me quite a while, hence so many cars. The main reason for this being not knowing what I want from a car. Luckily my car-owning-path was lead to a brand spanking new Clio R27. Suddenly I knew what I want from a car, yeah it's that good. After quite a while I decided that the running costs for the car were too high and truth be told, in retrospective the engine isn't a gem and the car is quite heavy. In my search for a replacement I tried a Ford Focus RS mk1 with 325hp, Clio RS169 and an ITR 98 Spec. After driving the ITR on a twisty road, I had to have it. I probably don't have to go any deeper regarding my car history than this. The main thing I learned in the last few years is that I really like how the japanese do their performance cars.

I'm sure that I'm not the only one who has such a story to tell, so I'll leave it like this.

The last 2 years have been quite a roller coaster with a big plunge at the beginning and I had to sell my B20vtec sedan before I could use it for what it was planned, daily and track use. The thing that bugs me the most is not the pile of money that I lost with it but the fact that I couldn't enjoy my hard work of over 13 months and tune the car further to my liking.

Until this point I have learned a couple of things:

Number 1 - I don't like boring cars with no pedigree. I'd be rather spending my time in an old banger with some character than in a newer car, amm, let's say a Corsa 1.2. Why a Corsa? I mean seriously.

Number 2 - new cars are not always better (both cars of the same trade). Example you say? R27 vs. ITR. The Clio drives close to the ITR, the chassis is stiffer, the steering is quicker and with more feedback, the Recaros are wicked,...but does it do anything that I search for in a car well, better? No, definetely no.

Number 3 - putting money into an old car equals money thrown out of the window. I don't have that luck that I could ever sell a tuned older car for the amount of money, never mind the time, that was put in it, not even close. Stripping the parts and then selling them piece by piece and the car almost close to stock was never my thing and don't forget my luck.

Number 4 - buying a new car equals money thrown out the window, then going down to the money, spilling gasoline over it, lighting a match....well, you can picture what happens next.

I guess you guys have all encountered the same thing, either from your own experience or from someone you know.

Now comes the tricky part which I cannot decipher. How do you decide if you should have and old car and tune it or rather buy a newer one and tune that one? Yes, after all those years and all those cars I still don't have a recepie for this conundrum. I find it awkwardly unpleasant to simplify the answer down to "whatever you want". I intensionaly didn't put afford into the answer. Lower down you will see why.

Working my way through different aspects of this question and trying to find an objective answer I always find different thoughts racing through my mind but there is one thing that I always think of, in every scenario unfolding in front of me, money. If I would s*** golden bricks things would be easier. Since I don't have the luxury of s***ing such a valuable substance, things get a little more complicated.

The question above arose because there is so much rolling metal out their on the market. For instance, you can buy an EK4 for less than 2k€ or even get a Nissan Primera P11 GT for less than 1k€. That is some fine engineering from the japanese for that money. Fast, pretty reliable, tunable,.... In stock form both are pretty decent and if you splash some cash on them they can get pretty serious. With some decent suspension and engine work you'd probably be somewhere in the 4k€ region for the EK4 and 2.5-3k€ for the Primera. The thing that bugs me here is that the tuning is 2-3 times the value of the cars. For a bit more than 4k €, let's say 6-7k €, a whole new group of cars opens up to you. Opel Astra OPC, GPA, Focus ST with that sweet 5 pot,...

And then it hits me...spend 2-3 times the value of the car on it and never get it back? Save up for something newer? When is old too old? Should I actually be worried getting my money back if I tune an old car, any car?...

I guess the answer for my question above is pretty simple and it's the one answer I've mentioned before and really hate, "whatever you want".

Maybe you guys here can put down your thoughts on this question, what you've tried, what you've learned,....share your experience. I think the question seems fairly simple at first glance but the more you think about it the more layers it gets.

Thank you for reading!
To keep it simple buy a car and appreciate it for what it is.
There is no need for modifying, the only reason for it is the car doesnt give you what you want, hence buy another car that does give you what you desire.
 


Zhlica

Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
62
That is an interesting point of view. I have tried that with a bunch of cars but I always ended up searching for that individual note that I desire and can be only achieved by tuning it. I have sold a couple of my cars for the same reason, didn't want to toy with them. So either I haven't found the right car for me, I doubt that, or I want something that manufacturers don't produce. I'm pretty sure now that I won't leave any car stock. It's not just my taste that makes me think this but also the fact that I'm an engineer and I do like to toy around with things :)
 


xxxencorexxx

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2014
Messages
1,122
That is an interesting point of view. I have tried that with a bunch of cars but I always ended up searching for that individual note that I desire and can be only achieved by tuning it. I have sold a couple of my cars for the same reason, didn't want to toy with them. So either I haven't found the right car for me, I doubt that, or I want something that manufacturers don't produce. I'm pretty sure now that I won't leave any car stock. It's not just my taste that makes me think this but also the fact that I'm an engineer and I do like to toy around with things :)
I understand that we dont always find everything we want in one car, to work around this have different cars for different purposes.
Take for example myself, i own a ek9 and ep3.
My ek9 is a summer/weekend/track/special occasion car and have no intention of driving it daily as its noisy,low,hard suspension.
My ep3 is comfortable,quiet, and also has that power if im ever in the mood so it suits me for a daily.
However in the future if i do more commuting and need a bigger more practical car then i will replace it with a diesel saloon.
Its possible to have the best of both worlds, a car for pleasure and a car for practicality, just depends how you look at things.
 


N24NTY

Instagram - christyfox555
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
88
In between Hondas I owned an Audi A4 for a couple of years, realistically it was everything I wanted in a car. It was quick, comfortable, great sound system and looked the part with a good wash. Something never really stuck though, I do miss it but it wasn't anywhere near as fun as thrashing the balls off a 20 year old or so Honda. I even went through a drifting phase, which again was a boat load of fun but wallet destroying.

The most recent EK project I've started wasn't because I missed old cars though, I needed a hobby. Unlike most people my age, I don't drink or do drugs, old Hondas are cheap, reliable fun. Even if I spent 6 or 7k building this EK to be all that it can. It still will owe me less than I paid for the Audi.

I think in general, older cars are more fun and that's what it boils down to.
 


Leej8

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2015
Messages
1,618
It's the touchs you add to your car that makes them special
New stock cars just don't have it and if they do
You need not to be worrying about money,
Me like you value money and it's not come by easy
For me anyway,
I love the 90s cars more specially japs that's were
My heart is in cars ,
Newer cars just don't cut it for reliability ,we like to know
How cars work simple mechanics, no hi tech hidden components!
I like building a car around me for my needs and goals
Which is not major power just good drivable car ,
 


JohnTurbo

Active Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2013
Messages
821
I think you should try to buy the closest car to what you want. Then fine tune it if necessary.

My sweet spot for dailys seems to be fast swedish diesels. 2 saabs and now a 215bhp D5 volvo. Thats because I want to waft to work! Audis and BMWs dont waft.
 


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