Lloyds ek"3" b-series build update pg2 (230bhp)

[lloyd]

as some of you who know me will know i am in the process of rebuilding my ek9 from a bare shell up, and have quite a few spare parts left over as most of it is being replaced with new parts, and while my cl1 euro R was supposed to be my sensible daily driver to keep me goin until the ek9 was done, an engine failure and following turbo conversion left it a bit too much of pig to drive everyday, which resulted in me buying this little ek3, this car was previously owned by forum member vi rs iain, who did a neat job of fitting a 5 stud conversion, and left it a nice little ek9 rep, of course this was an ideal car for me as i had so many parts left over from the K build to finish off the ek9 conversion on this.

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^^ the car as it had been when iain got it, he then painted the wheels white and fitted a genuine ek9 spoiler, first thing i done soon after getting it was start messing around trying on parts i have for the ek9, including the mf10's and all the carbon bits,

however i much prefer the oem look, i got a proper ek9 front bumper for it and binned those horrible fog lights,

of course it wasnt long before the b16b found its way into the engine bay, along with the s4c with gear-x 4.7fd and unknown lsd,

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once the b16b was in place, i decided to get it mapped as it was something i had always wanted to do when it was in the ek9 but never got around to doing, im glad i did now as the car drives totally different as beforehand it didnt make any power before 7k rpm, it made quite high figures, which confirmed my suspicions that all was not oem inside that engine, how ever dyno figures are nothing but pub banter, im sure no matter what i say there is normally a couple of gobshites yapping about put it on dyno dynamics its a real dyno etc, but as far as im aware there is no true reading of hp on rollers as there are so many correction factors, so comparisons can not be made on different dynos, and vtec6000 if you happen to be reading this, it is not a dig at you in any way, im just stating this as ive seen too many threads cluttered with silly arguments about power figures. but anyway here is a few photos and a link to a video of the thing running,

******video link here*****

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=673960935961070&l=4537132797934898369

the p30 ecu i got for the car prior to being mapped had no rev limit which led to some nuts figures and a hair raising scream, if only i could reliably rev it to this all the time,

once i got the going end of things sorted it was important to upgrade the stopping and turning ability of the thing,
picked up a set of mtec disks and cl rc6 pads off dosvtec, which i can only describe as unreal, the do squeal quite a bit and are quite dusty, but the slightest touch absolutely stands the car on its nose,

got the rims sand blasted and refurbished with a fresh coat of nho champ white,

second hand set of ohlins coilovers that i had kicking about found their way in to,

next up was to prepare it for the winter so i got it up on a lift and stripped off bumpers etc and gave it a good coat of under seal,

since then i have been pretty much enjoying it with no major updates, it has developed a bit off an appetite for dives lately so i may look into an uprated pair,

other than that i treated it to a torque damper and rpc flywheel that i picked up during tegiwa's christmas sale,

flywheel hasnt been fitted yet as im leaving it until i get a chance to pull engine out and freshen up the engine bay, while im at that itbs and a proper set of cam pulleys will be added in the quest for 215 bhp,

 

[EKandrew]

did egg chip your p30 llyod? h

 

[lloyd]

did egg chip your p30 llyod? h

it was already chipped andrew, but he can do it, he fitted the chip to that wee white ek9 i had up last weeknd

 

[RicheyEK9]

I know that dyno Keven Gallagher's got mine done there before Christmas nice 9 to lad

 

[lloyd]

I know that dyno Keven Gallagher's got mine done there before Christmas nice 9 to lad

Yea Kevin's a sound lad, what sort of power did yours make lad if you don't mind me askin, ?

 

[RicheyEK9]

Yea Kevin's a sound lad, what sort of power did yours make lad if you don't mind me askin, ?

wasn't to happy with it so when I got home I gave it a full service as I only had the car a few weeks when I done it must get back up now again with a better bolt on system

 

[Vtec6000]

As I tell everyone, don't worry about dyno figures. As you say they are for pub talk.

I know my dyno reads low compared to others, It is well known in the industry that Dyno Dynamics tend to read lower than other brand dyno's. They didn't get the name of "Heart breaker" dyno for no reason! But on the flip side they are considered an industry standard for power measurement and are used by some of best tuning companies around the world so I think that says a lot about how good of a tuning tool they are.

As for operator influence on power figures, the Dyno Dynamics dyno has what is known as "Shootout mode" this helps remove the possibility for operator error or blatant fiddling of power readings.

Was your car ran first on stock ecu?

 

[RicheyEK9]

As I tell everyone, don't worry about dyno figures. As you say they are for pub talk.

I know my dyno reads low compared to others, It is well known in the industry that Dyno Dynamics tend to read lower than other brand dyno's. They didn't get the name of "Heart breaker" dyno for no reason! But on the flip side they are considered an industry standard for power measurement and are used by some of best tuning companies around the world so I think that says a lot about how good of a tuning tool they are.

As for operator influence on power figures, the Dyno Dynamics dyno has what is known as "Shootout mode" this helps remove the possibility for operator error or blatant fiddling of power readings.

Was your car ran first on stock ecu?

you did my friends dc5 and he got 241 with you and then he thought he would give egg's ago and got 247 still nice to get a ruf idea naw was on a Crome

 

[G1enn]

Nice build keep it up bro

 

[StevenEj9]

Lovely car, Look Forward to seeing the build progress.

 

[lloyd]

As I tell everyone, don't worry about dyno figures. As you say they are for pub talk.

I know my dyno reads low compared to others, It is well known in the industry that Dyno Dynamics tend to read lower than other brand dyno's. They didn't get the name of "Heart breaker" dyno for no reason! But on the flip side they are considered an industry standard for power measurement and are used by some of best tuning companies around the world so I think that says a lot about how good of a tuning tool they are.

As for operator influence on power figures, the Dyno Dynamics dyno has what is known as "Shootout mode" this helps remove the possibility for operator error or blatant fiddling of power readings.

Was your car ran first on stock ecu?

Do you run on stock ecu first? This lad dosnt, I would be inclined to think that a tuner that gives before and after figures must not be confident that their tuning will not be felt by how the car drives and also a higher likelihood of fiddled figures

you did my friends dc5 and he got 241 with you and then he thought he would give egg's ago and got 247 still nice to get a ruf idea naw was on a Crome

did Kevin tune it? Or just do a power run?

 

[RicheyEK9]

Naw he never touched it lad vtec6000 done it all as far as I know ?

 

[lloyd]

Naw he never touched it lad vtec6000 done it all as far as I know ?

That's approx a 2.5% differance if my maths are correct, which isn't much of a differance, I was expecting more,

 

[Vtec6000]

Do you run on stock ecu first? This lad dosnt, I would be inclined to think that a tuner that gives before and after figures must not be confident that their tuning will not be felt by how the car drives and also a higher likelihood of fiddled figures

Yes when possible I will always run the car first on stock ecu. How else would you document what you have gained by a remap unless you ran the car first on stock ecu. Your arse dyno is one thing but for anything to be documented it needs to be down on paper.
I don't see why any tuner wouldn't, where possible run a car first on stock ecu. Well I could make some assumptions but lets not get into that. Look at it another way, If I never ran a car on stock ecu before tuning how could I give a estimate of what power you can expect to achieve by getting a remap?!

 

[RicheyEK9]

That's approx a 2.5% differance if my maths are correct, which isn't much of a differance, I was expecting more,

Yea it's not that much but always wondered how some dynos very from others but was told that by vtec6000 above

 

[lloyd]

Yes when possible I will always run the car first on stock ecu. How else would you document what you have gained by a remap unless you ran the car first on stock ecu. Your arse dyno is one thing but for anything to be documented it needs to be down on paper.
I don't see why any tuner wouldn't, where possible run a car first on stock ecu. Well I could make some assumptions but lets not get into that. Look at it another way, If I never ran a car on stock ecu before tuning how could I give a estimate of what power you can expect to achieve by getting a remap?!

I understand you point of view especially when dealing with fairly stock cars the differance in drive ability mightn't be much, and from a business point of view I suppose it does help sell your service as some people don't fully understand the concept of tuning And with your method you can show them exactly how much up they have "bought", in my case it is building and tuning rally engines this lad specialises in, and most rally men don't give a dam about figures, it's all times that matter

Yea it's not that much but always wondered how some dynos very from others but was told that by vtec6000 above

The thing about rolling roads is they don't read power they calculate it, and each manufacturer use's differnt values for these calculations, and some of the values can be changed by the operator, eg flywheel power can not be read from rollers due to transmission losses and wheels lip, so wheel power is read and multiplied by a percentage to give a a flywheel figure, temperature,altitude,tire pressures and many other things play a part in the figure, change any one and you have a differnt figure,

Out of interest vtec6000 do you use a set percentage for transmission loss or do you calculate it from coasting down?

 

[Vtec6000]

I understand you point of view especially when dealing with fairly stock cars the differance in drive ability mightn't be much, and from a business point of view I suppose it does help sell your service as some people don't fully understand the concept of tuning And with your method you can show them exactly how much up they have "bought", in my case it is building and tuning rally engines this lad specialises in, and most rally men don't give a dam about figures, it's all times that matter


The thing about rolling roads is they don't read power they calculate it, and each manufacturer use's differnt values for these calculations, and some of the values can be changed by the operator, eg flywheel power can not be read from rollers due to transmission losses and wheels lip, so wheel power is read and multiplied by a percentage to give a a flywheel figure, temperature,altitude,tire pressures and many other things play a part in the figure, change any one and you have a differnt figure,

Out of interest vtec6000 do you use a set percentage for transmission loss or do you calculate it from coasting down?

Depends on the rally men lol. I've retuned rally car's that were tuned elsewhere originally, often they get lower figures off me than what they supposedly were when mapped by another company. Trying to explain that my dyno reads lower can be a task at times but once they drive the car and see how it performs they see the bigger picture.

It's a fixed percentage which cannot be changed once in Shootout mode. Dyno measures WHP then adds a percentage to give BHP. The dyno you used does it use coast down method? What was your WHP reading?

 

[Rybean]

Awesome! Love that power curve lad. Want to drive a 9 so bad

 

[lloyd]

Depends on the rally men lol. I've retuned rally car's that were tuned elsewhere originally, often they get lower figures off me than what they supposedly were when mapped by another company. Trying to explain that my dyno reads lower can be a task at times but once they drive the car and see how it performs they see the bigger picture.

It's a fixed percentage which cannot be changed once in Shootout mode. Dyno measures WHP then adds a percentage to give BHP. The dyno you used does it use coast down method? What was your WHP reading?

i think he uses a fixed percentage, i didnt ask for a print out of whp, but i will be speaking to him this weekend at the galway rally so il ask him then, id be thinking its somewhere between 170-180

 

[lloyd]

few upgrades to report since i was on here last, swapped my exhaust to a mugen twin loop so i could fit a cat for the nct/mot when i had it on i robbed the mf10's off the ek9 so i could do some mugen whoring,

having succeeded in passing nct/mot, (had serious issues with emission) i removed the mugen and made up a proper 2.5 inch system, with 3 silencers in it,
its no louder than the twinloop was but no restriction to flow,

added a j's style tip as i like the look of a down turned tip but also the fact as the exhaust gasses bounce of the ground it absorbs some of the noise, which adds the effect of another silencer without the extra weight.

i also got the chance to fit the rpc flywheel which i had lying around and also an exedy stage 1 clutch, as my own had been making a horrible grating sound the last two weeks which turned out to be a spring wandering about in there

into the shed beside the '9 for some tlc

and this was the shape of the thing that came out,

the spring hitting my flyweel bolts was the noise id been hearing

the remedy

ultimate clutch alignment tool...the shaft from one of my spare gear box's

added another little bit of weight saving to the mix by removing the stupidly heavy front bumper support, mite sound silly, but managed to remove 5kgs from it alone,
below is a photo of the two types of ek9 bumper bars, standard and racebase model, and my own version,