I guess I won't be using PayPal again

[Ally138]

Hey folks before I go on a rant and a swearing fest. I would like to say I was wrong in selling counterfeit items (regardless that I was unaware of this at the time, and please bear with me) and now my balance is in negatives. So i had a dispute opened up against me.

last week I received this message saying everything was fine.

"We have concluded our investigation and have decided in your favour. Any
funds that may have been temporarily held have been returned to your
account."

Then earlier today I got this message..

"PayPal considers the claim made to be genuine based on the documentation we
received. PayPal has verified that the inauthentic item has been
destroyed.

A refund has been issued to the buyer in accordance with the PayPal
Protection Policies. The funds have been removed from your PayPal account.
If your PayPal account contains an insufficient balance to complete this
refund, your account access may be limited.

Thank you for your cooperation."

Then I put a complaint through and received the exact same standard message, so I sent them this.

"Hi there. A dispute was made against me and I already made a complaint about it. I was informed that the item was to be destroyed. I am currently on my iPhone and just noticed that on a page the buyer is now selling the items I sold to him. The Facebook page is "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" and are the items. I have taken screen shots from this page of his post. And I advice you to do so too and look into this with further investigation. I already have made a complain and already unhappy with this outcome. Please be in contact ASAP "

their reply was

"Thank you for contacting PayPal regarding a recently closed case.

From review of the case PP-xxx-xxx-xxx-xxx, I can see that buyer’s claim
was closed on the basis that the item they received was confirmed to be
counterfeit.

The buyer filed a claim stating the item they had received from you was
not authentic. While the investigation was open, the buyer submitted a
report from a specialist to evaluate the authenticity of the goods sold
which supported their claim. As a result PayPal determined that
according to our policies this item could not be returned to you.

Once the supporting document was verified as legitimate by PayPal, we
decided that the buyer would have to destroy the item and provide an
affidavit testifying this. The buyer submitted an affidavit to confirm
the item had been destroyed so they were given a refund.

We understand that you believe the buyer did not actually destroy the
item and is re-selling the item via Facebook. However, this case is
closed. Your screenshots will not be sufficient to overturn our case
decision.

While our decisions may sometimes seem unfair to you, we deal with all
cases as objectively as possible. We always aim to make a fair decision
based on what information is both available and verifiable at the time.
To learn more, see section 13.3 of the PayPal User Agreement or PayPal’s
Acceptable Use Policy for further details.

Ultimately no policy can be a substitute for a constructive dialogue
between you and a buyer in any dispute. We suggest this remains your
best option for a satisfactory outcome where a dispute arises.

We appreciate your patience and understanding."

then i replied..

"Thanks for your reply

Can I ask you where exactly is the logic in that? You asked for the item to be destroyed and the item is clearly not only hours of giving the buyer refund. You say I am violating policy, but that means you are violating your own policy, or the buyer is. There was clearly no solid proof that the items were destroyed, the documentation to verify the the authenticity of the item were probably vague. Yes I find this a complete farce and this should be dealt with at once.

How can you let somebody like this get away with murder?! There is no justice. If this is not settled. I will not be paying off the remaining negative amount of my balance, as this is basically a con.

Your policies and methods of dealing these cases need to be reviewed and changed. The quality of service is a disgrace and appalling."


Then they replied...

"Thank you for contacting PayPal.

We appreciate the time you've taken to write us with your comments about
our service.

I realise that this is not the outcome you would have wished for but I
do hope you will understand that this decision was made in accordance
with our policy. While I cannot change this, I will make sure your
objection is duly recorded.

I understand that you do not intend to restore your balance. If you
don’t restore your balance within 35 days of it becoming negative, the
issue may be passed to a Collections Agency which could affect your
credit rating. Please repay the outstanding amount as soon as possible"

so finally I replied...

"Hi

If the decision was made in accordance to your policy then why is the item not destroyed? There is solid proof that the item is still there. I can prove to you that this person was the one I made the transaction with.

The only way I would accept to restore the balance if the items were sent back to me at the very least.

Who ever established these policies are clearly logically demented in some sort of manner and lack concept.

How would you feel if an asset you have sold, then finding out that they were not authentic after selling to the buyer. Then abiding to PayPal policy, the item is to be destroyed under a signed legal documentation with no solid proof of the item being destroyed. And with your account in negative balance as it is. You find the buyer sells the item on after receiving them for virtually nothing. In fact it was nothing. Payment for courier has also been refunded. Out of my own pocket, money has been paid to send these items to the buyer. An refund issued to buyer and then abiding to "PayPal policy", then asking buyer to "destroy" the items when the buyer only signs a document then to find out that the item is for sale again.

There is no logic in your policies, there is no concept. It is all just corruption. I cannot think of any better way of putting it. And I repeat, the buyer is really just getting away with murder."

I'll probably get a reply in the morning. As PayPal's policy, I wont be getting the goods back but at least I wont them destroyed and I want real evidence of that. It is just utter SHITE.

Am I right or am I wrong? I was wrong to sell counterfeit items for a start (even though I didnt know this). But they are just contradicting themselves I think... arghhh it really annoys me how that guy is selling them on! I just want this put right.

Also another thing that kinda worries me is my credit rating, how long does it hang onto your name for? I'll just do a runner to another country lol.

When I hear stories about folk getting screwed over by PayPal, I wouldn't have thought it would this bad. I have been looking at random forums and some people get done more badly than my situation!

So once I get this sorted. I will never use their services again.

 

[waff]

Ally,

I am 100% agree with you. This is a similar way of corruption.
Paypal can be sometimes very helpful, but another ones can be a real inconvenient, being very unbalanced.

And as you stated, you apologized and recognized for your own wrong act.



For me a correct policy in this case would be:

-"item/s" returned to you, an you refund the value. But being your first time selling no genuine items, they should sanction you with a limited time restriction (of some type).

-If you repeat the same action more times as seller, they should sanction you with a permanent restriction, or with the method they used with you now.



But always giving a first chance to the seller to change his mind, as a model of leasson to be lernt.



I wish they changed their policy towards your case... But this is nearly impossible I guess.

 

[darcygr]

They are cowboys man seriously, i owe them 60 quid so i cant have an account with them again, they made me so angry one day i wish i still had the e mails because i actually lost it with them, proper abused them, and then all of a sudden all i got back was " you cannot reply to this e mail" but it had been the one i was replying to the whole time! GRRRR they make me so angry

 

[lance]

paypal are cunts

 

[Escy]

I've been screwed over in the past also. Out of interest, what did you sell?

 

[dhdavectr]

Where is the buyer/new seller located ?

It's crap how you've been treated and that PayPal can't see fault in their own system.

I've had paypal decide for and against me for claims and it does occasionally work in your favour.

 

[M.1]

That's shocking the way they have treated you; especially when you know for a 100% fact that the item has not been destroyed and that the person who bought it from you is selling it again..hence that person making a complete profit on the item.

Hopefully they realize that their policy is wrong in this situation.

 

[spikeyhairdude]

What my teacher said at school. Ebay owns paypal, So bothe are a load of b**

 

[SRossi]

I would say if the item put you out of pocket a bit of money then I would take the case to a lawyer, you have evidence that proves the item hasn't been destroyed although the seller has a signed affidavit that it will be destroyed.

Reading another thread the other day ago where someone on here paid £1000 for Bride seats and they turned out to be fakes, counterfeits as paypal would say, will he have to destroy them? Likelihood is no as there are no mention that the items are real or not. I would say if you never knew they were real, which I have no reason to doubt that you never knew you seem like a genuine guy, and the seller never asked (they may have I don't know) then I'd almost have to say that although they may be copies they are in no way counterfeits in the same way that Rota wheels (sold by the bucket load on eBay) or Tegiwa stuff (no debate here just saying that they have copied other designs) are in no way counterfeits. I see a lot on eBay with Tegiwa airboxes saying "Mugen DC2 Airbox Toda Cusco Spoon Tegiwa" and I would be sure that you wouldn't get away with asking for a refund because it gave a false impression.

If your none the wiser and the seller hasn't asked if they are genuine or not then I believe it should be his fault for not making sure before he sent the cash (this is going to start an argument I feel but that's my opinion).

Sorry for the rant but I would hope that you'd be able to recover some of your losses.

 

[Ally138]

I would say if the item put you out of pocket a bit of money then I would take the case to a lawyer, you have evidence that proves the item hasn't been destroyed although the seller has a signed affidavit that it will be destroyed.

Reading another thread the other day ago where someone on here paid £1000 for Bride seats and they turned out to be fakes, counterfeits as paypal would say, will he have to destroy them? Likelihood is no as there are no mention that the items are real or not. I would say if you never knew they were real, which I have no reason to doubt that you never knew you seem like a genuine guy, and the seller never asked (they may have I don't know) then I'd almost have to say that although they may be copies they are in no way counterfeits in the same way that Rota wheels (sold by the bucket load on eBay) or Tegiwa stuff (no debate here just saying that they have copied other designs) are in no way counterfeits. I see a lot on eBay with Tegiwa airboxes saying "Mugen DC2 Airbox Toda Cusco Spoon Tegiwa" and I would be sure that you wouldn't get away with asking for a refund because it gave a false impression.

If your none the wiser and the seller hasn't asked if they are genuine or not then I believe it should be his fault for not making sure before he sent the cash (this is going to start an argument I feel but that's my opinion).

Sorry for the rant but I would hope that you'd be able to recover some of your losses.

You are spot on! This was the point exactly I made towards to PayPal. The guy literately asked for my payment details without a hi. It honestly is so **** how it is like that. So I've told PayPal I'm not paying them back unless they sort themselves out and to deal with it. I've had a few problems before but they were dealt with ease because the buyers weren't dicks like this ****.

So by not paying back I think I've only really lost about £3. I'm only standing up to what I believe in. And I believe that this is totally wrong

 

[X28]

When I read threads like this it makes me angry how bad PayPal and eBay are. My opinion is if its sold its sold end of, the contract of the sale has been met. If the item is cheaper then the going rate, then its obviously some questions with it, but if the buyers willing to risk it then its there choice. The system is wrong were you buy some fake through PayPal and eBay, there are just covering there backs, why don't they chase the supply chain and find out who's putting these items out there, in the first place.

I'm not sure how items which are copied but changed a little like Rota wheels etc stand. I know there are eBay items with copied or styled like items, selling. They banned me for life for selling a couple of mix tapes, yet theres loads on offer on eBay and website you can buy mix tapes. It's all a bit of a farse. Some how I don't think there going to go out there way to destroy what ever you sold - I would think the problem is more wide spread then ever. I bought a mugen oil cap when I was on eBay and it turned out to be fake, I should of done my research realy. But the saying is buyer be ware. PayPal and eBay is a con in my view.

 

[lazybean]

Ally mate you gotta get on the phone to them. Sending emails doesnt seem to be getting anywhere. Get on the phone and ask for a manager, explain what has happend without loosing your cool, you should at least be refunded.

 

[R1PPU]

Thats **** mate. One of the reasons i only use Bank Transfer for buying/selling. I agree with lazybean about getting on the phone to them. I might have missed it, but have you told them that the buyer never asked if they were genuine?

P.S. Im gonna get Greg to bring the ARB's through next time he goes home if i've still not come through, sorry about it taking so long!

 

[CivicTypeR89]

intresting! i brought some fake skunk2 lca's off ebay and paid with paypal, wonder if i can get my money back!

 

[rvm]

Paypal unfortunately is a necessary evil when selling / buying stuff on the internet

And they suck, I remember when they cancelled my account because we where making a raffle here lol

 

[oifovo]

Cali Uni law students offer free legal help in order to gain experience, my friend used them and won a case against his former employer with their help. I am not sure how much they could do for you but it might be worth contacting them and asking the question? I will ask my friend for details and pass them on. Also, I know it can be very difficult and I was no different when I was younger but being offensive in your letters will not help, try to stay calm in any correspondence you have with them. Also, I would suggest downloading a call recorder for your iphone and record any communication with them - remember to tell the operator that you are recording the call before you say anything else!!!!!

 

[Ally138]

Thats **** mate. One of the reasons i only use Bank Transfer for buying/selling. I agree with lazybean about getting on the phone to them. I might have missed it, but have you told them that the buyer never asked if they were genuine?

P.S. Im gonna get Greg to bring the ARB's through next time he goes home if i've still not come through, sorry about it taking so long!

I've already called them thsi morning and they said they were gonna look into but I doubt they will. I'll probably make one last call on monday.

ah cool no worries still need to pay the remaining to ya haha!

intresting! i brought some fake skunk2 lca's off ebay and paid with paypal, wonder if i can get my money back!

lol you get a limited amount of days. think it's 60 to make a dispute. if they are fake then you must destroy them after getting money back. dont be a **** like that guy


So what i've done was give the guy dogs abuse, like really shocking abuse. stuff that I wouldn't really say but in my very own opinion, I feel that he deserved it. It's on civiclife if you want to have a swatch. I am expecting a ban but I don't care. gives me an excuse not to go on that forum. I do warn you, the stuff i said is really offensive.

Anyway, shall call paypal on monday to inform them that I will not be paying them back due to their shite policies that lack morals and dont service justice. And they just have to deal with it.

 

[pateras_vtec]

Your screenshots will not be sufficient to overturn our case decision.

Still this guy`s documents proving your items as fake where sufficient... I know taking legal action is probably far more expensive than the money they ask of you, but these bastards need a lesson.

 

[darcygr]

this is just so horrendous. they really are a bunch of cowboys running riot.

 

[type-r-dunk]

Is is poss to get someone to buy the seats back off of him and pay via PayPal. Then just file as counterfeit item and get his account frozen.
Dunx