IMF-NWO-GREEK CRISIS etc


There's no need to involve some conspiracy theories.

Majority of Greeks have a deep rooted suspicion of and disrespect for business and private initiative and there is a widespread belief that “big money” is earned by exploitation of the poor or underhand dealings and reflects no display of virtue or merit. People feel that they are entitled to manipulate the system in a way that enables them to use the wealth of others as it is a widely held belief that there is nothing immoral with milking the rich because they are commonly perceived to be everything that is wrong with Greek society. In fact, the money the rich seem to have access to, is the cause of much discontent among people of all social backgrounds for example farmers and students. The reason for this is that the government for decades has run continuous campaigns promising people that it has not only the will but also the ability to solve their problems and has established a system of patronages and hand-outs to this end.
You guys have very big welfare programs and lots of people are avoiding taxes. Everything is filled with closed profession, from lawyers to taxi drivers and newspaper stands, and only answer to competition is general strike. Answer to welfare spending cuts is strike.

Don't get me wrong, but it's not *only* the governments fault for the situation in PIGS countries.
On the other side, i couldn't agree more that bank bailouts are not a good option. Bailouts of any kind cause moral hazard and malinvestments because if project fails, bank will not have to suffer the losses.
You will default, it is only the matter of time. Everytime you get more money, you spend it on welfare or some sort of capital projects that are non profitable.
Greek government is acting like captain of Titanic:
"Iceberg ahead!"
"Don't worry, this is THE TITANIC, it is stong built, it will cut right through"

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but that's the way it is. You can't spend more than you earn.
I hope Greece will recover, but it won't happen with welfare policies.
 
You guys have very big welfare programs and lots of people are avoiding taxes.

i agree to most of what you said, and you seem to have a good knowledge of what`s going on so you could name a couple of our big welfare programs? I also agree, people avoid paying taxes are a plague. But don`t think of me as biased if i tell you that people making 50 grand a year and more declare income as high as 4.000€. it`s not the little folk that are tax evading. The little folk, strike and riot after having burden themselves with useless loans for cars, summer holiday, dolce vita that was never the greek lifestyle. Now that the banks ask for their money back they feel hustled. Rich became richer in expense of the poor, working for 30€/day, and poor became poorer for not knowing better.
 
Greece needs to just decide what to do and get on with it. Delays are not doing anyone any good. Its going to hurt no matter the option taken. "**** or get off the pot!"
 
...debit/credit is a form of slavery, it should be killed. Debit/credit is an invention from big business to enslave the poor.
 
it's only the governments fault for the situation in PIGS countries at least in Greece yes i can say it is.
when cov manipulated people so they can won the elections for example ...

also where is the united europe when this crisis ''came up'' ?
they ment to be united and help each other ...
but i think this could happen if Greece could buy a bunch of f16s or a similar weapon...
(that was happening all these years)

there will be very rich and very very poor european countries after that crisis
i feel euro is falling apart with all the pros and cons ...
 
Greece needs to just decide what to do and get on with it. Delays are not doing anyone any good. Its going to hurt no matter the option taken. "**** or get off the pot!"

agree. But i believe it`s deeper than political cowardliness.
 
^^^I agree, its not only Greece that has this issue, its everyplace in the world.
"Leaders" lead; they don't throw a vote at a leadership decision as in the case with Greece, just to hide from the falloutn of a decision, right or wrong, they decide what to do because its their job! sheesh!
 
...debit/credit is a form of slavery, it should be killed. Debit/credit is an invention from big business to enslave the poor.
Well, you could stockpile your earnings, live under the bridge, and buy a house in, let's say.. 20 years. :D

But don`t think of me as biased if i tell you that people making 50 grand a year and more declare income as high as 4.000€. it`s not the little folk that are tax evading.
I'm not trying to justify this, but it is probably because of progressive tax rate. The more the rate is, bigger is tax evasion. Also, those people that are evading, receive something (service) for nothing.


Just to make it clear, i'm not accusing pateras, abunai or some other individual, just writing in general. ..and English is not my mother tongue, so sorry for mistakes :)

Greek government (like any other in fact) doesn't plan in long term. Longest for any government is next (re)election. So, for past few years we see that EU bailouts indebted members by reprogramming, or giving them another loan with smaller interests. No one wants to loose their money, so this could be the way to retrieve at least some of it back. Last thing any creditor wants is riots or civil war or something, because then it can forget all of it.
Some could say that this is way that rich wants to enslave the poor (or Germany the Greece), but if you look at the situation, Germans have to suffer the losses that Greeks can't repay. That's not a good way of enslaving i'd say.
Don't forget that Greek gov. falsified statistical data for years to be able to enter EU, and only received "harsh" no-no from EU Commission when that got out BBC NEWS | Business | Greece warned on false euro data

As for welfare and public spending, well, big problem is overgrown state with huge bureaucracy, public sector jobs and strong unions. You need to understand that public sector is paid mostly from private sector. Let's say you have constant number of private sector employees, and growing number of useless bureaucracy. That means state needs more money for more people that are paid from the state budget. Also, public jobs have strong unions that refuses any cuts or lay-outs. Only 2 things state can do in this case is raise taxes or seek for credit. If you raise taxes, some of private sector companies will close, some will fire few workers because of rising expenditures. Then you got situation with less private sector which fills the budget, and more public sector which spends the budget. And then, the government usually creates more public sector jobs (oh, look, we solve the unemployment problem) to win next elections. Who pays the debt? Who cares, we probably won't rule when that time comes. I'd say that time is very near for Greece.

I found this picture on the Internet, but don't know if the numbers are true. Maybe you can say for Greece and UK:
8yidz7.jpg
 
the map looks funny to me
me and my wife TOGETHER are making 1300-1400euro per month and most of my friends are in the 700-900euro range per month...before crisis.
now half of my friends have not been payed for 3 months and the other half including me are loosing lets say 100-150 euros per month.
i feel lucky im not living in a big city like Athens if i was there right now i would be homeless ...
 
Greek government (like any other in fact) doesn't plan in long term. Longest for any government is next (re)election. So, for past few years we see that EU bailouts indebted members by reprogramming, or giving them another loan with smaller interests. No one wants to loose their money, so this could be the way to retrieve at least some of it back. Last thing any creditor wants is riots or civil war or something, because then it can forget all of it.
Some could say that this is way that rich wants to enslave the poor (or Germany the Greece), but if you look at the situation, Germans have to suffer the losses that Greeks can't repay. That's not a good way of enslaving i'd say.
Don't forget that Greek gov. falsified statistical data for years to be able to enter EU, and only received "harsh" no-no from EU Commission when that got out BBC NEWS | Business | Greece warned on false euro data

As for welfare and public spending, well, big problem is overgrown state with huge bureaucracy, public sector jobs and strong unions. You need to understand that public sector is paid mostly from private sector. Let's say you have constant number of private sector employees, and growing number of useless bureaucracy. That means state needs more money for more people that are paid from the state budget. Also, public jobs have strong unions that refuses any cuts or lay-outs. Only 2 things state can do in this case is raise taxes or seek for credit. If you raise taxes, some of private sector companies will close, some will fire few workers because of rising expenditures. Then you got situation with less private sector which fills the budget, and more public sector which spends the budget. And then, the government usually creates more public sector jobs (oh, look, we solve the unemployment problem) to win next elections. Who pays the debt? Who cares, we probably won't rule when that time comes. I'd say that time is very near for Greece.

What you say about civil employees, debt and creditors are correct. That has been going on for years in Greece. The big problem with this country is that we don`t produce as much as a pin! We don`t make our own money. Agriculture was a last hope, but alas farmers relied on EU funding instead of investing in new products. Shipping was taxed away, and tourism it`s just for laughs with high VAT and over charging foreigners....

Do you really believe that the EEC (at the time) didn`t know about the mixed numbers? Sure they did! But they saw a long term opportunity to get their money`s worth back in ports, rail roads, buying off at ridiculous prices state property and so on.

And 2 more things. how can a nation recover from the edge of bankruptcy when beeing pushed by the rest EU member to buy their guns and armors?

3E Greek Crisis Daniel Cohn-Bendit - YouTube

There`s a huge issue that German media avoid making known. The WW2 pensions towards Greece owed by the German federation. Germany was condemned for war crimes against Greece but never paid that money. furthermore, as an occupation army, printed and published the "war mark" or something like that, that loaned Greece whilst occupied by them!!!! they emptied the national deposits and they said they loaned us on top of that! I`m not by any means trying to say that we`re innocent, but if you want to play good creditor - bad loaner understand your part, and don`t be hypocritical about it.
Just for the record, german war pensions, are enough to pay off the Greek debt and then some....
 
Some could say that this is way that rich wants to enslave the poor (or Germany the Greece), but if you look at the situation, Germans have to suffer the losses that Greeks can't repay. That's not a good way of enslaving i'd say.

I found this picture on the Internet, but don't know if the numbers are true. Maybe you can say for Greece and UK:
8yidz7.jpg

:lol::lol::lol:

I could never imagine the biggest bankers of EU suffering from some billion euros ,when they can easily loan them to a small country ,easily loose the 50% (from Greek 50% snip of debt) ! Imagine how many billions on percentage % they gained from the money they lented!!!
The real Greek debt is about 40 billions the other 360 billions are interest over interest!

It's really unnecessary to copy paste bankers friendly paper articles!:angry:

It's not Greek crisis , it's worlds' crisis!
Greece is having an illness , but capitalism is the real sick!
 
:lol::lol::lol:

I could never imagine the biggest bankers of EU suffering from some billion euros ,when they can easily loan them to a small country ,easily loose the 50% (from Greek 50% snip of debt) ! Imagine how many billions on percentage % they gained from the money they lented!!!
The real Greek debt is about 40 billions the other 360 billions are interest over interest!

It's really unnecessary to copy paste bankers friendly paper articles!:angry:

It's not Greek crisis , it's worlds' crisis!
Greece is having an illness , but capitalism is the real sick!

Big business is in crisis...capitalism is fine. Big business got too greedy and introduced debit as a positive thing when in fact its a dead end road, which is where we are all at now.
 
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