Turbo B16a V B18C Conversion - Opinions Needed

[jugbugz]

hmm, I'm still wondering which would be cheaper, Stroking to 1.8 or b18C conversion.

We can also keep the CTR pistons with 1.8 crank and rods for more higher CR. But does it still need tuning or could you still use the stock B18C ecu or SPOON b18c ECU with the CTR pistons??

 

[EK9turbo]

hmm, I'm still wondering which would be cheaper, Stroking to 1.8 or b18C conversion.

We can also keep the CTR pistons with 1.8 crank and rods for more higher CR. But does it still need tuning or could you still use the stock B18C ecu or SPOON b18c ECU with the CTR pistons??

ctr pistons & itr rods/crank = about 12:1. tuning is ESSENTIAL!

but why spend all the money building the engine then put the big heavy ctr pistons in it??? alot more power could be gained with a good set of wisecos. like 20+hp over the ctr pistons in that setup!

using the spoon ecu is just asking for it to break on you, dude you shoulnt even be considering a nice engine without the tuneable ecu.

 

[jugbugz]

ctr pistons & itr rods/crank = about 12:1. tuning is ESSENTIAL!

but why spend all the money building the engine then put the big heavy ctr pistons in it??? alot more power could be gained with a good set of wisecos. like 20+hp over the ctr pistons in that setup!

using the spoon ecu is just asking for it to break on you, dude you shoulnt even be considering a nice engine without the tuneable ecu.

Yeh that was my question if tuning is necessary with raised CR. But yeh, forged is the way to go.

 

[EK9turbo]

Its essential. Plus with a good tuner it'll be safe, smooth, reliable and powerful.

 

[blinx9900]

hmm, I'm still wondering which would be cheaper, Stroking to 1.8 or b18C conversion.

We can also keep the CTR pistons with 1.8 crank and rods for more higher CR. But does it still need tuning or could you still use the stock B18C ecu or SPOON b18c ECU with the CTR pistons??

It really depends how much parts and labor cost in your area in my area It is approximately the same cost to rebuild the b16b ($2250) into a 1.8 vs buying a used 1.8 b18c ($2000).

However the price to convert the b16b into a 1.8 includes a new oilpump and assumes you go .25mm over requiring boreXhone AND it also includes the spoon stroker kit, having both the head and block resurfaced and giving the head new valveguide seals and a 3 angle valve job. So in the end you really do have a brand new engine!! I would personally rebuild the b16b into a 1.8 over buying a 1.8

as ek9turbo states the b16b pistons are heavy, i would use the b18c pistons that come with the kit which would land you at 11.5 with the included spoon head gasket which is perfect for street.

 

[jugbugz]

$2000?! lol we locals are looking at almost 4-$6k for a Used B18C. I would have done it long ago if it was only 2k!

impressive I just found out and confirmed its more costly here to stroke than to swap :/ I think I'll just keep my B16b

 

[blinx9900]

$2000?! lol we locals are looking at almost 4-$6k for a Used B18C. I would have done it long ago if it was only 2k!

impressive I just found out and confirmed its more costly here to stroke than to swap :/ I think I'll just keep my B16b

4-6000 in usa will get you an entire b18c type r conversion with engine, trans, ecu, header, harness, axles, shift linkage etc... the $2000 i quoted was for the longblock alone.

 

[jugbugz]

D'janeiro, you have got to exp a jdm k20'd EK.

You would Seriously just ditch the turbo and B18c conversion by then. Although its more expensive, but you wont stop spending $ on your car anyway.

I was totally blowned away by my friends EK+K20a. I've sat in B18C+EG, ferrari, 911 turbo, 993 turbo, M5, E55. But it is seriously 911 turbo quick. The accessibility of torque is just amazing! 100-200kmph felt like 6secs.

 

[blinx9900]

D'janeiro, you have got to exp a jdm k20'd EK.

You would Seriously just ditch the turbo and B18c conversion by then. Although its more expensive, but you wont stop spending $ on your car anyway.

I was totally blowned away by my friends EK+K20a. I've sat in B18C+EG, ferrari, 911 turbo, 993 turbo, M5, E55. But it is seriously 911 turbo quick. The accessibility of torque is just amazing! 100-200kmph felt like 6secs.

lets not exaggerate now, one of my good friends has a 250bhp K20 ek and i was simply not impressed, i have also drive MANY fast cars. The shop i used to work at is nearly finished with a 2.6 K series that is supposed to make 350bhp NA!! I will tell you how that one is

 

[jugbugz]

lets not exaggerate now, one of my good friends has a 250bhp K20 ek and i was simply not impressed, i have also drive MANY fast cars. The shop i used to work at is nearly finished with a 2.6 K series that is supposed to make 350bhp NA!! I will tell you how that one is

haha, obviously you haven't experienced a JDM K20. The Si K20 is nothing in comparison to the Real K20. I've driven lots of exotics like ferrari porsches etc, but this one really chops them. How can a FWD car running 12s not feel fast?

 

[blinx9900]

haha, obviously you haven't experienced a JDM K20. The Si K20 is nothing in comparison to the Real K20. I've driven lots of exotics like ferrari porsches etc, but this one really chops them. How can a FWD car running 12s not feel fast?

jugbugs perhaps i was not clear, my friends ek has the JDM k20 type R engine!! further more nothing but the best parts: toda cams, toda header, toda exhaust and Kpro it made 210whp aka 250bhp on shitty 91 octane gasoline with a cat. So i certainly have experienced a k20 type r and remain unimpressed. I also have driven lots of cars, i was the driver at the shop i used to work at, i've drive mercedes mclaren SLR, acura NSX, 550whp supra, a handful of 250-450whp civic's, mazarati's etc just to name a few... If someone gave me a K20 type r for FREE, i still would not put it in my car. My 1.6 makes 333whp aka 380bhp at 12psi, that is more than a K20 NA will ever make and my engine is good up to 20psi!!

 

[Jason.s]

Why not consider a B20? Thats were my money would go. Guy on CRX-UK that not long ago had a B20 conversion even without a proper map on it and running slightly rich said he`d never go back to B16/18 again. Thats with this spec:

B20b Block
B16 head-ported-15thou head skim.
Buddyclub spec 3+ cams
AEM cam gears
ITR valve springs & retainers
Prelude 345cc injectors
B&M FPR + guage
Skunk2 pro inlet manifold
68mm Skunk2 throttle body
Insulating Inlet & TB gaskets
AEM hybrid cai
Fidnaza lightened fly wheel
Exeedy stage 1 organic clutch
4-2-1 supersprint manifold
Tanabe concept G full system
PWO ecu tuned with BRE

 

[EK9turbo]

D'janeiro, you have got to exp a jdm k20'd EK.

You would Seriously just ditch the turbo and B18c conversion by then. Although its more expensive, but you wont stop spending $ on your car anyway.

I was totally blowned away by my friends EK+K20a. I've sat in B18C+EG, ferrari, 911 turbo, 993 turbo, M5, E55. But it is seriously 911 turbo quick. The accessibility of torque is just amazing! 100-200kmph felt like 6secs.

Theyre fast, but not that fast. It would be almost like my turbo 1.6 setup running on the wastegate at about 8psi. the torque is what makes it feel so good with a K.

I was going to go K series just to prove them but decided against it for one reason.. to use the decent mounts you have to change from the EK9 subframe to a EG or DC2 subframe which are faar less rigid or substantial.

The subframes of most cars greatly affect the handling, the stiffness and chassis rigidity would not be the same. In my opinion this would be taking somthing special away from a real type-R. I know your talking EK here but I would definitely not go down that route now because of that.

As for it being 911 turbo quick, epends which your talking about.

jugbugs perhaps i was not clear, my friends ek has the JDM k20 type R engine!! further more nothing but the best parts: toda cams, toda header, toda exhaust and Kpro it made 210whp aka 250bhp on shitty 91 octane gasoline with a cat. So i certainly have experienced a k20 type r and remain unimpressed. I also have driven lots of cars, i was the driver at the shop i used to work at, i've drive mercedes mclaren SLR, acura NSX, 550whp supra, a handful of 250-450whp civic's, mazarati's etc just to name a few... If someone gave me a K20 type r for FREE, i still would not put it in my car. My 1.6 makes 333whp aka 380bhp at 12psi, that is more than a K20 NA will ever make and my engine is good up to 20psi!!

I can understand blinx feeling unimpressed beacause turbo 1.6 setup just grip so much for a turbo car! stick to 50 profiles and you are gone! Alot more of a rush than an NA K20. Excluding methanol/alcohol setups.

Why not consider a B20? Thats were my money would go. Guy on CRX-UK that not long ago had a B20 conversion even without a proper map on it and running slightly rich said he`d never go back to B16/18 again. Thats with this spec:

B20b Block
B16 head-ported-15thou head skim.
Buddyclub spec 3+ cams
AEM cam gears
ITR valve springs & retainers
Prelude 345cc injectors
B&M FPR + guage
Skunk2 pro inlet manifold
68mm Skunk2 throttle body
Insulating Inlet & TB gaskets
AEM hybrid cai
Fidnaza lightened fly wheel
Exeedy stage 1 organic clutch
4-2-1 supersprint manifold
Tanabe concept G full system
PWO ecu tuned with BRE

What power did it make?

Proffesional B18 setups fully built make around 20bhp less at the most and the motors are a lot more reliable with a better designed block. When you compare them the type-r blocks are miles ahead in structure/design.

It annoys me when I see people do full builds buying great parts then cutting back on the management and good tuning.

 

[Jason.s]

He still hasnt had it mapped as of yet so its still overfueling a touch. The guy he`s waiting to have it mapped by has been busy building his own B20 rex but he`s got a tri-y manifold and a proper sized exhaust system to go on and then get it mapped eventually. That engine in the previous car made 181whp and 156ft-lbs torque. It has had port matching done and some other stuff done and that figure was on a decent map.

 

[Gee]

but decided against it for one reason.. to use the decent mounts you have to change from the EK9 subframe to a EG or DC2 subframe which are faar less rigid or substantial.

The subframes of most cars greatly affect the handling, the stiffness and chassis rigidity would not be the same. In my opinion this would be taking somthing special away from a real type-R. I know your talking EK here but I would definitely not go down that route now because of that.

Man that sucks.

My plan was to save for a K20 conversion. I'd love to turbo the the 9, but had too much hassle with my current turno car and I saw someone here mentioned turbo EK9's need a lot of TLC? Mine will be a daily driver.

How would a tuned up B18C compate to a K20?

 

[EK9turbo]

He still hasnt had it mapped as of yet so its still overfueling a touch. The guy he`s waiting to have it mapped by has been busy building his own B20 rex but he`s got a tri-y manifold and a proper sized exhaust system to go on and then get it mapped eventually. That engine in the previous car made 181whp and 156ft-lbs torque. It has had port matching done and some other stuff done and that figure was on a decent map.

Again driving a built motor untuned is just asking it to fail on you. He shouldnt drive it till thats done. 181whp is very low power for a built b20. what pistons is he running? and what comp? ive seen pro fully built setups make over 300bhp.

Man that sucks.

My plan was to save for a K20 conversion. I'd love to turbo the the 9, but had too much hassle with my current turno car and I saw someone here mentioned turbo EK9's need a lot of TLC? Mine will be a daily driver.

How would a tuned up B18C compate to a K20?

Just have to keep on top of your oil changes and always monitor you oil, always do regular inspections in the bonnet for any issues (if the car is abused daily) plus if you have a problem the fix it asap other wise itll catch-up to you... do this and you should be fine if its a good setup. What alot of people do is skimp on quality parts or tuning then they have problems and they just associate the problems with the fact its turbo'd which is wrong.

 

[EK9turbo]

B18 allmotor setups are great. especially with a balanced LS crank! 270-280bhp is no problem with the right parts.

 

[Jason.s]

he`s not running any form of uprated piston that i know of and im not sure on compression ratios. Its not a hugely built engine though. Its within a reasonable budget that anyone could do without much worry and would possibly be cheaper to do that than buy a JDM B18 and put that in. Its not completely untuned. It has a base map on there to suit the parts that are fitted reasonably safely its just not perfect.

 

[D'janiero]

Replied to your pm Jugbugz This car sounds like a beast...would love to see some pics or vids man.

To be honest a K20 swop has never been an option for me really, mainly because of the hassle/cash thats involved. It seems to makes more sense to go down the turbo route imo. And even more so now after what ek9turbo said i.e. "to use the decent mounts you have to change from the EK9 subframe to a EG or DC2 subframe which are faar less rigid or substantial".

I keep changing my mind like the weather, but hopefully I should be stroking my b16b or doing a 98spec b18c this year, untill I can fund a full turbo build.
I could get the turbo build done on the cheap, but i'd rather do it properly and not skimp out on parts etc, and have a motor built to last.
So I b18c will have to do fro the time being, but from what the b18c dudes have told me, I should be more than happy with the swop.

I remember reading a thread about b20's v b18c's before. What is it that makes the b20 builds unreliable and not being able to rev as high as the b18c?

 

[Gee]

Thrown my K20 plan out of the window too.

But it seems B18C's can't be built to produce some good HP figures.

You get my MSN message Djan?

Put a deposit down on a facelift