Tuned engines!?

[jugbugz]

I find this funny to see So much people prefering the B18 over the K20 because of the engine characteristics, B18 is said to be more raw. While if the same question is asked about B16b vs B18 just a few people will prefer the B16b because it's more raw and the majority would choose a B18, as I've seen before in discussions. Even though the difference in characteristics between a B16b and a B18 is the same difference as between a B18 and K20.

Anyways, if insurance works out I'd defo go K20. From what I've seen, people spend K20 money on getting their B18 to 210whp, while a K20 gets that (or even a bit more) and a much broader powerband with a few simple bolt ons and then there is still plenty of room left to tune. And about the characteristic, it's not like the K20 doesn't like to rev, it's not become a diesel

Most of the time people are just mislead. Rawness doesnt mostly come from the engine. Its more the chassis. EG/EK/DC are much 'rawer' feeling chassis' compared to the next generations. A Jdm K20a inside an EK9 is rawer than a B18 inside an EK9 by far. When you've sat in one or driven one, you'd understand.

Just imagine what it feels like to drive a 1988 CRX with a K20a? >800kgs.

I agree with you. K20 very easy to make power with less money. That video of the DC5R with simple breathing mods and tune make an extra 40hp without any internal work. Very good example. My B16B would never ever do that.

 

[DOSvtec]

so i did alot of research into doing the k swap and it works out that there is alot more to it than i thought, i knew it wasnt going to be straight forward but i didnt think it was so awkward at same time, every single part has to be modified to fit the ek and then buy custom drives etc after that, i see now why icetronix want €8499 to do a k swap conversion so anyone have an idea how much it costs to even get the k series into the ek? i no the k series is the best for value for power but going by my research, its gona take alot of €€€'s to get the engine in never mind tuning after that

 

[_JT]

Do it yourself man Nowadays you don't need to do welding etc anymore I think if you have the patience to source the right parts (some maybe 2nd hand) you can have your K-swap for 6k, minus your current engine. And then you'll have around 240whp.

If you want to save out you could use the stock ECU for the K20, that will save you almost a grand. Of course that won't be optimal but it's not like anything will break ánd you will still have more power. I can imagine that there will be cheaper options to tune a K-series in the future just as well.

 

[stevenEK9]

Im a B fan. Why i really do not know.
One down side for a track setup is the oiling issues with the B's.
Cant take corners at high RPMs for a prolong time; long sweepers.
To avoid starvation issues, lower RPMs in turns.

just noticed this, makes absolutely no sense!

a well maintained B series with a proper baffled sump and the correct volume of oil will not have any issues on track

my old B16B did 57 laps of the ring and 300ish laps of knockhill, no oil cooler, just a moroso baffled sump and there was never any issues

the last 30 laps of the ring it did it was above 7k for pretty much the whole lap

 

[haitch]

so i did alot of research into doing the k swap and it works out that there is alot more to it than i thought, i knew it wasnt going to be straight forward but i didnt think it was so awkward at same time, every single part has to be modified to fit the ek and then buy custom drives etc after that, i see now why icetronix want €8499 to do a k swap conversion so anyone have an idea how much it costs to even get the k series into the ek? i no the k series is the best for value for power but going by my research, its gona take alot of €€€'s to get the engine in never mind tuning after that

Rough costs (and other time saving pointers) - page 7 mostly, you can always do things cheaper..

http://www.ek9.org/forum/general-chat/22162-k20a-few-home-truths-7.html

 

[Topher-EK9]

just thought i'd throw this out there. its not my opinion lol but wondered what people think of it.
In the past i've seen alot of D series engines making huge amounts of power - 700+ Whp

i know 700Whp is a bit OTT but surely it wouldn't be the price of a K swap to get a reliable 300 Hp D series, one that has been sleeved and made bullet proof..
is it possible to tune a D series to get it spool quickly so there is minimal lag.

thoughts ? Btw this is not something i would do but just wandering ? with the price's guys are talking about above. what sort of thing could you do to a D series with £7000 - £8000..

 

[Topher-EK9]

^ this is it dude, with the £8000 for a K swap. is it not worth while to build a 400 Hp D series.. surely if built right it can be as reliable as any B or K....

Tbh i don't know lol, hence me putting it out there.

was yours a powerful D larry or was this when you were starting out ?

 

[stevenEK9]

to do it right though, you are talking big bucks by the time the block is sleeved and all the necessary supporting mods are there to handle big boost

one of the biggest problems with these big engine builds is finding the right person to bolt the engine together, it's easy enough to throw an engine together, but to be able to build an engine correctly, one which will last for thousands of miles, that's the important and sometimes tricky thing..............

hence why a K series swap is desirable, the engine, once fitted, will produce good power and be rapid with simple bolt on's which if tuned correctly shouldn't sacrifice the reliability of the engine

 

[Tom19]

Could just get a stroker kit? I've been considering that or a b20, ganna build an ek from scratch!

 

[Vtec6000]

just thought i'd throw this out there. its not my opinion lol but wondered what people think of it.
In the past i've seen alot of D series engines making huge amounts of power - 700+ Whp

i know 700Whp is a bit OTT but surely it wouldn't be the price of a K swap to get a reliable 300 Hp D series, one that has been sleeved and made bullet proof..
is it possible to tune a D series to get it spool quickly so there is minimal lag.

thoughts ? Btw this is not something i would do but just wandering ? with the price's guys are talking about above. what sort of thing could you do to a D series with £7000 - £8000..

It will be laggy as hell cause you'll need a very big turbo on a D series to make 700+whp

 

[muiris]

my old B16B did 57 laps of the ring and 300ish laps of knockhill, no oil cooler, just a moroso baffled sump and there was never any issues

the last 30 laps of the ring it did it was above 7k for pretty much the whole lap

that's unparalleled reliability right there..

 

[stevenEK9]

If you are really concerned about oiling then remove the oil squirters on your block

the oil squirters are there to cool the bores, however if you are running forged pistons / sleeves then they aren't strictly required

removing them and fitting blanks (golden eagle made some blanks) will increase the oil pressure and increase the oiling to the engine bearings instead

then to make use of this increased oil pressure, couple that with this kit which will increase the oiling to the cylinder head

Generic Oil Plumbing Kit

 

[leeK9]

been there done that

if you want more power go turbo

that is all

 

[webbie]

Must be my age but if I had £8000 I would just put it towards a fd2 . Not plough it into my 9

 

[Topher-EK9]

been there done that

if you want more power go turbo

that is all

I guess this is true. I think the challenge of tuning a B to high power N/A is what is keeping these guys interested in it.

The thrill of the chase for some is greater than the end prize

 

[DOSvtec]

since i dont have a hp figure i want to reach, i dont mind what the engine ends up putting out with a n/a build but imo i rather a honda to be non turbo, if i wanted to go turbo id just buy another evo or something like that but i think what topher said is very true about the thrill and keeping an interest, its like our passion to modify and tune our ek9's to the best we can... and then let them loose on the black stuff

 

[Rich777]

If you are really concerned about oiling then remove the oil squirters on your block

the oil squirters are there to cool the bores, however if you are running forged pistons / sleeves then they aren't strictly required
removing them and fitting blanks (golden eagle made some blanks) will increase the oil pressure and increase the oiling to the engine bearings instead

then to make use of this increased oil pressure, couple that with this kit which will increase the oiling to the cylinder head

Generic Oil Plumbing Kit

Its a bit of a funny one my friend as there's two sides to that one. There job is to spray a jet of oil onto the piston pin & and crown. I know there not strictly needed with forged pistons but i look at it this way: That jet of oil spraying up onto the piston crown does a great job when it comes to cooling the piston. The thing is as well the more power your pushing (FI) & the higher the C/R you have (NA) the higher the cylinder temps are and the hotter the piston becomes. So by removing them are we actually doing our self that much of a big favour ? Its debatable for sure... Generally speaking we have more than enough oil pressure in our Hondas (they actually run higher pressure than a lot of other platforms) and increasing it will not do us any favours in my eye's. This is just my view....

 

[Darragh]

For the price of a K20 conversion or high end b18c build you could have a B18c swap , gearset , LSD , tyres , nice brakes and some quality suspension..

Its a lot of money to go spending just on the engine and you are left with an unbalanced car afterwards , not allowing you to use all the power you have to its fullest.

 

[Topher-EK9]

For the price of a K20 conversion or high end b18c build you could have a B18c swap , gearset , LSD , tyres , nice brakes and some quality suspension..

Its a lot of money to go spending just on the engine and you are left with an unbalanced car afterwards , not allowing you to use all the power you have to its fullest.

I hear what you're saying man. definately. but i think alot of the people with the money to build a high power B18 or a K20 will have enough money to have covered their brakes, suspension and gearset Etc. Its a nieche market for high end B18 builds and so i think it comes without saying that people can afford the other parts to utilise the power fully..

think about this.
2011 Golf Gti - £24,000 +
2010 Audi S3 - £25,000 +

Ek9 - £5000 / £6000 for a very tidy one - leaving £20,000 to play with... I know which i would rather have any day.

 

[689R]

You could build a very cool EK9 for 10k these days. Which in reality isnt a great deal of money.