taking a different approach to tuning


Gpro said:
I will say again i aint a expert on honda engines but i have seen on a different forum someone gaining 50hp just from adding water/meth and getting it mapped.

Also water/meth provides much colder air intake temperatures which will result in more power turbo or NA.

What am trying to prove is you can make a lot more power with a lot less money by picking the right parts.
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can you post up exactly what mods your going to do to your dc2 and whats already done, and what bhp/torque you plan to make :nice:
 
50hp on a Boosted setup Honda yes. Otherwise that's 250hp from stock block N/a. Built motors won't run that.
I'd like to see you right, I'd go get myself some water/meth. Just a guess but 10hp max on stock block.
 
Theres a reason that nxt to nearly everyone with a modded honda starts with a good i/h/e setup... why you ask? Because it works. The bseries engines are pretty restrictive in terms of air/gas flow in and out of the engines. Thus a good i/h/e setup will free up a bit of power and its also a reliable mod that wont ruin your engine, after that cams or forced induction are the only other reliable route to go in terms of engine mods. Both these routes cost alot of money to do properly and reliablily. Getting alot of extra power out of a bseries engine is expensive. Theres no way around it. Why would anyone even consider messing with timing and water meth on a standard engine is beyond me to be honest and i cant see that engine having a very reliable future.
 
It all depends on how aggressive you want to be with the ignition maps.
A safe tuner might struggle to gain you 5hp where a more aggressive tuner will get you a lot more hence going for a proper standalone. Due to the ignition timing being so aggressive after mapping it. The AEM will retard timing if it detects any knock and protect the motor. Even if the meth pump was to break you won't blow your engine with a proper ECU

As for what i am after. I would be happy with 230-240bhp
 
weetabixhead said:
Theres a reason that nxt to nearly everyone with a modded honda starts with a good i/h/e setup... why you ask? Because it works. The bseries engines are pretty restrictive in terms of air/gas flow in and out of the engines. Thus a good i/h/e setup will free up a bit of power and its also a reliable mod that wont ruin your engine, after that cams or forced induction are the only other reliable route to go in terms of engine mods. Both these routes cost alot of money to do properly and reliablily. Getting alot of extra power out of a bseries engine is expensive. Theres no way around it. Why would anyone even consider messing with timing and water meth on a standard engine is beyond me to be honest and i cant see that engine having a very reliable future.
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If your going to mod your car for speed you need to sacrifice a bit of reliability.

Why mess with pistons,valves etc when a similar outcome can come a lot cheaper and more reliable.
Stock components are usually always more reliable then a build engine. Yes a build engine can produce more power then stock but reliability won't be the same
 
if your going to mod your car for speed and dont want to open the engine, look into a gearset!
you wont make similar power to a fully built engine with your standard b18,it may be more reliable alright!
 
Stock components are designed to a cope with the power that honda intended the car to have from the factory. Upgrade the power in a significant way then you need to upgrade certain engine conponents. You seem to really know what your talking about so go ahead with your method of tuning i hope it works... i and most others will stick with the proven (albeit more expensive) method of tuning im sure.
 
I will try and do a dyno before and after all the mods i will report back soon as av done it.
end of the day am trying to help not take the piss
 
Gpro said:
It all depends on how aggressive you want to be with the ignition maps.
A safe tuner might struggle to gain you 5hp where a more aggressive tuner will get you a lot more hence going for a proper standalone. Due to the ignition timing being so aggressive after mapping it. The AEM will retard timing if it detects any knock and protect the motor. Even if the meth pump was to break you won't blow your engine with a proper ECU

As for what i am after. I would be happy with 230-240bhp
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There's no way on god's earth your getting those type of figures out of a stock engine without some sort of forced induction. You have already confessed to not being a Honda expert so i'd take the advice of genuine Honda enthusiast's and people dealing with Honda's for years. And if your planning on using it as an every day car messing with your timing is going to have an effect on your fuel consumption. Also its spelled mentioned :nice:
 
You can go way over MBT on the B18 type R before det kicks in, and intake temps are not crazy anyway so all adding water and meth in going to do is decrease the amount of air you can get in. Unless you are ripping the dizzy out to go COP for the ignition (which I would say is worth while) I'd just run a chipped OBD1 conversion, they are very capable if your keeping the std sensors and ignition system.

Water/meth is a great idea for turbo or knock limited engines, the honda B series is neither.
 
If you want a different approach, go look on Honda-Tech. I see people reverse engineering the cylinder heads into CAD. 3D flow testing the ports and combustion chambers. Welding up and CNC machining the heads to match new specifications. Custom cams ground to match the new head flow characteristics. I see people engineering new intake systems, or running E85 on high compression FI builds.

I started reading this thread hoping for a 'different approach' along those lines, but what I got was someone trying to apply FI tuning techniques to a NASP engine while using a couple of off the shelf parts.

It's different alright, but it's not a hen...
 
Boosting a standard (healthy) b16a2 is not cheap...... but i can confirm its a GREAT upgrade and its still an everyday car! :drive:

And can i add, i have NEVER heard of anyone running a 3.5" exhaust on a civic AND boost on a stock ECU unless it was chipped with Chrome or equivalent!

Where are you from? interesting to see where these people are from that are actually doing this to there cars? :nono:
 
jesse888 said:
50hp on a Boosted setup Honda yes. Otherwise that's 250hp from stock block N/a. Built motors won't run that.
I'd like to see you right, I'd go get myself some water/meth. Just a guess but 10hp max on stock block.
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Check out Honda- Tech for some 350hp+ b series running low tens at 130+mph, trap speed is a better indicator of raw hp than a dyno as there is no guessing going on.

To the op, you seem to have a bit of a boner over ignition timing, this is not an area of tune where you are going to find massive hp, ok as you pointed out earlier on in the thread you may find 5 hp with a really aggressive ignition map but this is not exactly different. If you want an easy boost in power forget the meth injection bs as it simply won't work, the iat's will be no where near hot enough to find any real gain, the only gain you might find will be the rise in octane. It seems like your in some ways trying to do an n2o kit on the cheap which would be a far better avenue to explore. Good luck
 
I was speaking N/A saying built motors won't run 250. Or at least very rare and still be 1800cc.
 
Skunk2 intake manifold is a type r copy, why would you change the stock intake manifold for a Skunk2 intake manifold? Do you think having a Skunk2 logo on the intake manifold is going to make you more power?

:jackson:
 
rs250nut said:
... It seems like your in some ways trying to do an n2o kit on the cheap which would be a far better avenue to explore. Good luck
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Bone stock with NOS, now you are talking some fun HP.
 
I read the thread title and was like :)

Then I read his posts and was like :(
 
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