Spoon Camshafts


Anto-EK9

Anto-EK9

Mitsi Evo VII
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Jan 14, 2007
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Okay I've decided that I want to go mad and buy a load of spoon parts for my car:clap: I was going to start off with the camshafts. Has anyone had any experience with them? I believe I don't have to upgrade springs or retainers for them. And I can sell my ek9 ones, so they wont work out to expensive! So long as I get my Apex'i vafc II mapped to run them I presume I will have no problems.

Anto
 
the spoon cams aren't really that much more aggressive than the EK9 ones to begin with.

They are capable of almost producing 200whp but then again, so are the stock EK9 cams provided you have the head ported more aggressively.

imho, I would get some other cams especially for the money you will pay for them new... unless you happen on a nicely priced set.

Here's some info on why the VAFC is not really ideal.

pgmfi.org said:
Why piggybacks (vafc, emanage) "suck" by pgmfi:
Piggy Back controllers allow stock ECUs to do things that they normally can't do, like run larger injectors or deal with boost. Remember that piggyback controllers work by altering sensor signals before they get to the ECU.

Most of the time, the primary signal being messed with is the Map Sensor. This is critically important in a Speed Density car. The Map Sensor is used by the ECU to guess how much air is going into the car, and therefore how much fuel to supply in order to match airflow. When you "lean" out a car with an AFC, you are simply decreasing the Map Sensor signal - the ECU responds to the decrease in manifold pressure by supplying less fuel. When you "richen" a car with an AFC, you are simply increasing the Map Sensor signal - the ECU responds to the increase in manifold pressure by supplying more fuel.

The change in fueling happens for a reason: if you look at a fuel table, Map Sensor values correspond with columns. When you increase or decrease the signal from the Map Sensor, you are simply making the ECU use a different column than it originally would have used. (see Understanding Maps if you need some help understanding reading Fuel and Ign tables)

But wait, isn't the Map Sensor used for determining ignition requirements too? When you "lean" out a car with a Piggy Back, you also in all likelyhood advanced timing. When you "richen" a car with a Piggy Back, you also in all likelyhood retarded timing. Look at trends horizontally (as MAP changes) in an ignition table, and you will see why this happens. This helps explain why so many boosted cars running on the "AFC hack" have issues due to excessive ignition advance.

The bottom line: Piggy Back Controllers suck because you cannot independently adjust fuel and ignition. Any changes to fueling will produce a change in ignition too, and often this is undesirable.
Click to expand...
 
SPOON cams isn't the way to go for making power. Even Skunk stg1 is better, especially TODA A.
 
Ok thanks for the replies! So whats the Toda A like so? Will I have to upgraded springs & retainers for these? Im not pushed on skunk2 stuff... Maybe I might get Toda Spec A & Toda Adjustable Cam Pulleys?

Would they make much difference, as I think im gonna hold onto my b16b as the engine is perfect and has never missed a beat!
 
If you simply put just cams in you can leave it but expect lil gains. When you change the cams very often they continue to make power past the rev limiter so revs need to be raised ONLY then will you be required to change your valve springs and retainers as you then cause "valve float".

I'm sure some1 else will elaberate on what i've said or correct me on any mis interperated information.
 
Every stg 1 cam, are made to keep the stock parts and don't require tuning. You dont need to upgrade springs, but you know TODA valve springs can increase power on stock cams as well, so its a good investment. They provide maximum lift. As well as a good tune to increase power.

TODA A is very realiable and easy to tune, good up to a 12CR motor. They provide the same feeling as stock cams, except more power. Your engine wont fail or blow up due to the fact its easy to tune over the stock mappings. I'll be trying out TODA A and Skunk PRO1 cams to see the difference. Oh, I heard theres a TODA A2 which is in between A and B. This is available outside JAPAN only! I know TODA AUS has it.
 
Anto-EK9 said:
Okay I've decided that I want to go mad and buy a load of spoon parts for my car:clap: I was going to start off with the camshafts.
Click to expand...

This is already not a good place to start. If you must seek more power, then you should upgrade the exhaust manifold to start.

Simply installing any cam at this point will likely produce frustrating results no matter how well the car is tuned. Of course, you could add the header afterwards, but why not do it first?

Many others who have more experience with tuning the 16B particularly in the states have stated to start with
-the header first
-then intake and exhaust respectively.
-You would also make some good power with cam gears and remapping the ECU.

What does Spoon say? For a completely stock 16B, they would change the flywheel, clutch (3 puck), LSD, and close ratio gears. Most would not do all of these at once, but I believe the close ratio gears would make the most difference with the flywheel coming in 2nd.
 
RagingAngel said:
This is already not a good place to start. If you must seek more power, then you should upgrade the exhaust manifold to start.

Simply installing any cam at this point will likely produce frustrating results no matter how well the car is tuned. Of course, you could add the header afterwards, but why not do it first?

Many others who have more experience with tuning the 16B particularly in the states have stated to start with
-the header first
-then intake and exhaust respectively.
-You would also make some good power with cam gears and remapping the ECU.

What does Spoon say? For a completely stock 16B, they would change the flywheel, clutch (3 puck), LSD, and close ratio gears. Most would not do all of these at once, but I believe the close ratio gears would make the most difference with the flywheel coming in 2nd.
Click to expand...

:nice:

Free flowing intake and exhuast :nice:
 
Well I've got a j's intake and Apex'i n1 cat back exhaust. Just have so sort out a cold air feed for the J's. So maybe I'll start with the J's 4-2-1? I have a 4.9 final drive, LUK ITR Clutch and lightened flywheel. The 5th gear synchro is begging to crunch when I change into it at high revs. Have changed the gearbox oil but to no avail. So when the gearbox has to come out I was gonna go with a close ratio gear set. Or would that be a waste with a 4.9? Thanks for all the replies!
 
Anto-EK9 said:
Well I've got a j's intake and Apex'i n1 cat back exhaust. Just have so sort out a cold air feed for the J's. So maybe I'll start with the J's 4-2-1? I have a 4.9 final drive, LUK ITR Clutch and lightened flywheel. The 5th gear synchro is begging to crunch when I change into it at high revs. Have changed the gearbox oil but to no avail. So when the gearbox has to come out I was gonna go with a close ratio gear set. Or would that be a waste with a 4.9? Thanks for all the replies!
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that is a good set up so far. thought you would have already had a header on there with the other mods that you have. get a good 4-2-1 header and with they other mods the cams will work very well
 
If you can afford to get a little more spendy, I would opt for the Toda header as it's proven its worth time and time again for an off the shelf unit especially for the B16B. Who knows what the future holds right? So be sure to opt for the one that's spec'd for the DC2 as it has slightly larger secondaries... This will come in handy if you ever get the itch to go 1.8L down the road.

Regarding the close ratio gears and 4.9.... depends on where you are driving and what kind of racing (if any) you will be doing. Where I live and the type of competition environment that is available to me, I would have either the 4.9 or the close ratio gears...not something I personally would put together.

but since you already have the 4.9, you should just keep it as is, unless you feel it's necessary to go even shorter....
 
Cool thanks, okay ill save up and get a toda so. Should I get a toda version one or 2? Or does it really matter?
 
Toda version 2 is better. It is reinforced in places where the generation 1 has been prone to cracking.
 
if your going to pay for a TODA header, you should consider Hytech, as these make more HP everwhere compared to TODA. Hytech slightly more expensive, but you know your getting the BEST! Forget Toda for that price.
 
I don't know how John has been with his supply lately, but if you feel like waiting 3-6 months, then I guess Hytech is for you. SMSP is also a good candidate as is SSR (Six Sigma Racing)

But all these big tube/long tube headers don't produce that much more power than the Toda, if any, when used on the B16B... the B18C...well..that's another story.

Dave Stadilus at SMSP clued in and recognized the Toda as the best off the shelf piece for the B16B, which is why he and others do not produce a specific long tube headers for the the 1.6L DOHC VTEC.
 
RagingAngel said:
I don't know how John has been with his supply lately, but if you feel like waiting 3-6 months, then I guess Hytech is for you. SMSP is also a good candidate as is SSR (Six Sigma Racing)

But all these big tube/long tube headers don't produce that much more power than the Toda, if any, when used on the B16B... the B18C...well..that's another story.

Dave Stadilus at SMSP clued in and recognized the Toda as the best off the shelf piece for the B16B, which is why he and others do not produce a specific long tube headers for the the 1.6L DOHC VTEC.
Click to expand...

nice info!
 
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