B18C EK9 owners - Any Regrets??
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D'janiero
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So Ive heard man. Ive read many a times a b series engine should have a smooth transition into vtec?
I do see what people mean i.e. b16b has a pretty aggressive vtec band. But surely that is because they are farely docile untill vtec, hence the major kick effect many people love?
But like ek9dan and others have said, the b18c vtec comes in just as hard as vtec with the b16b
I love to thrash my b16b, but the car feels like it just needs a lil bit more guts.
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I never understand why people say things like this, by stoking the B16b you will either end up with a B18c or a slightly higher compression B18c (if you use the B16b pistons). Why do people think you get a totally different engine? Unless I'm missing something...
As for the change-over, it's all in the tuning. The smoother it is, the faster it is. The more aggressive it is, the funner it is (up to a point), but you will most probably be losing some performance because of it.
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Paul W
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B18c is far superior to the B16b in everyway.
Having recently done the conversion I can safely speak from experience;
Smoother VTEC crossover, more torque, more power and theres a little more aftermarket performance to be gained from a B18c where as the B16b is strangled and strained at the best of times, and has absolutely no power before 6k rpm.
For track, fast road and everyday driving the B18c tops the charts as you dont need to be constantly burying the foot in order to get from traffic light to traffic light where as the B16b is ridiculous for that, this will obviously helps MPG as well.
My B18c EK9 also will pull a few car lengths on various EP3 civics where as it was left behind with the B16b. Various people will argue that but thats from my personal experience.
No regrets from me at all!
Having recently done the conversion I can safely speak from experience;
Smoother VTEC crossover, more torque, more power and theres a little more aftermarket performance to be gained from a B18c where as the B16b is strangled and strained at the best of times, and has absolutely no power before 6k rpm.
For track, fast road and everyday driving the B18c tops the charts as you dont need to be constantly burying the foot in order to get from traffic light to traffic light where as the B16b is ridiculous for that, this will obviously helps MPG as well.
My B18c EK9 also will pull a few car lengths on various EP3 civics where as it was left behind with the B16b. Various people will argue that but thats from my personal experience.
No regrets from me at all!
Barryl85
Barry L 85
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+ rep for that
truer words never spoken. Yaaaass in there mathew.
Although you always think threads are stupid! This ones actually about turbo b16b or b18c not too shabby.
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Yo Tim,
You already know what I'd say about this having to privalege in owning Ek9, Dc2 and Dc5 + my bros FN2 and dads NA2. Just for reference to what people have said here that I want to note out and comment. Its sad everytime one of these threads are created, because the B16B is just going to recieve a bashing that it doesnt deserve. People should just understand some things like 'theyre both hondas. Not nissan vs honda!'
1. A '09' BMW730i isnt a fast car. Heavy as **** too. Its such a shame to compare that with a B18C swap. Your B16B Ek9 would have no problems with a 6cyl family car.
2. Regarding Vtec crossover. I can bet on you that some people who have said the Vtec crossover was non-felt were driving a B18C with aftermarket ECU.
When you lower vtec, its less felt. B18C is stock at 5800rpm, B16B is 6000rpm. 200rpm isnt much but its enough to alter the kick. I had a Vtec controller to play with 1 day on the B16B, once it was set lower than 6000rpm the kick was gone. I also had a genuine SPOON ecu that I put on the DC2R, and the vtec crossover was diminished since vtec was set at 5000rpm.
IF YOU REALLY WANT THAT VTEC KICK ON A B18C, GET A VTEC CONTROLLER AND SET VTEC @ 6000RPM. THEN IF YOU DONT FEEL A KICK THATS WAY MORE POWERFUL THAN THE B16B, THEN YOUR MOTOR IS FUKED! NO EXCUSE, NO REASON AND THIS ARGUEMENT IS STUPID.
FUN? Seriously? Set the Vtec crossover @ 6000rpm and you will have way more fun than a B16B. B16B is basically a B18C with its guts ripped out and made for endurance races. Theres nothing more to it besides the fact that it has a higher RPM potential, revs safer above 9000rpm and runs cooler due to the longer stroke.
Just think carefully why there are B18C owners here saying there is still a powerful kick? Heck my Stock 2001 DC2R was damn strong at crossover. And the sensation from 6000-8000rpm was something the B16B could never produce. B16B only really starts to rev from 7000rpm, under that its pretty gutless.
3. Sound comparison. The B16B and B18C sound different. the vtec noise and full throttle noise is different. B18C is more throaty and has a deeper bark to it compared to B16B. ANY ENGINE THAT REVS FASTER and with HIGHER RPMs WOULD SOUND LIKE F1. B18C REVS MUCH FASTER THAN B16B. I dont need to say anymore. Just listen to SPOON's DC2R or SPOON EK9 B18C on youtube and see how loud and agressive it revs to 9000rpm for reference. Then, go and watch a SPOON EK9 B16B. Theres no comparison. There was a video where Tsuchiya was testing the EK9 and commented 'A 1.8 civic would be very fast!'. Now why would a pro say something like that?
You already know what I'd say about this having to privalege in owning Ek9, Dc2 and Dc5 + my bros FN2 and dads NA2. Just for reference to what people have said here that I want to note out and comment. Its sad everytime one of these threads are created, because the B16B is just going to recieve a bashing that it doesnt deserve. People should just understand some things like 'theyre both hondas. Not nissan vs honda!'
1. A '09' BMW730i isnt a fast car. Heavy as **** too. Its such a shame to compare that with a B18C swap. Your B16B Ek9 would have no problems with a 6cyl family car.
2. Regarding Vtec crossover. I can bet on you that some people who have said the Vtec crossover was non-felt were driving a B18C with aftermarket ECU.
When you lower vtec, its less felt. B18C is stock at 5800rpm, B16B is 6000rpm. 200rpm isnt much but its enough to alter the kick. I had a Vtec controller to play with 1 day on the B16B, once it was set lower than 6000rpm the kick was gone. I also had a genuine SPOON ecu that I put on the DC2R, and the vtec crossover was diminished since vtec was set at 5000rpm.
IF YOU REALLY WANT THAT VTEC KICK ON A B18C, GET A VTEC CONTROLLER AND SET VTEC @ 6000RPM. THEN IF YOU DONT FEEL A KICK THATS WAY MORE POWERFUL THAN THE B16B, THEN YOUR MOTOR IS FUKED! NO EXCUSE, NO REASON AND THIS ARGUEMENT IS STUPID.
FUN? Seriously? Set the Vtec crossover @ 6000rpm and you will have way more fun than a B16B. B16B is basically a B18C with its guts ripped out and made for endurance races. Theres nothing more to it besides the fact that it has a higher RPM potential, revs safer above 9000rpm and runs cooler due to the longer stroke.
Just think carefully why there are B18C owners here saying there is still a powerful kick? Heck my Stock 2001 DC2R was damn strong at crossover. And the sensation from 6000-8000rpm was something the B16B could never produce. B16B only really starts to rev from 7000rpm, under that its pretty gutless.
3. Sound comparison. The B16B and B18C sound different. the vtec noise and full throttle noise is different. B18C is more throaty and has a deeper bark to it compared to B16B. ANY ENGINE THAT REVS FASTER and with HIGHER RPMs WOULD SOUND LIKE F1. B18C REVS MUCH FASTER THAN B16B. I dont need to say anymore. Just listen to SPOON's DC2R or SPOON EK9 B18C on youtube and see how loud and agressive it revs to 9000rpm for reference. Then, go and watch a SPOON EK9 B16B. Theres no comparison. There was a video where Tsuchiya was testing the EK9 and commented 'A 1.8 civic would be very fast!'. Now why would a pro say something like that?
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Rich777
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i just took it the wrong way.
D'janiero
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Hey Eric.
Thanks for posting up. Valuable information as always.
Like I said I'm gonna stroke her
. I would sell my b16b and get a b18c, but I would rather not take the risk.
Atleast this way, I know I'll have a fresh bottom end
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X2
Why do you think with a spoon ECU you get alot smoother transfer into Vtec??
Maybe because the engine is making power throughout the rev range as its suposed to??
DanielsonEK
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ive gone from b16b>b18c6 and wouldnt go back if you paid me
dont get me wrong the car was fun before the conversion but its 10times better now
no regrets to be had!!
dont get me wrong the car was fun before the conversion but its 10times better now
no regrets to be had!!
Steve
The Man The Myth
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Some interesting reading.
I am in the predicament of going from b16b to b18c. b16b is a hoot to drive, but on a track or tight b-roads it is gutless when you do have to drop slightly below 6,000rpm.
So could do with the extra grunt lower down.
What's the MPG difference likr day to day normal driving?
Only ever drove a 98spec DC2 breifly and it did feel quicker, not mental quicker just quicker. It seemed to fly through the revs.
When we had a little run in, my EK9 sat along side it however was neck and neck all the way which i found strange :/ tbf though the DC2 had just been imported and wasn't sure if my mate was rev'ing it all the way.
But thats the only thing putting me off doing it, I can't see my car being any slower with a B18c.
But my standard b16b goes really well against modded EK9s and DC2's, so would be devistated to do the swap and not be happy
Planning on going for a 98spec JDM b18c with the 98spec 4.7FD LSD S80 gearbox, just having a serious think about it at the moment.
I was reading somewhere on here that only some 98specs have the same intake camshaft as the EK9 head and some still used the 96spec intake camshaft? i know its only like 3degress different, but anyone know if this is true?
Is there anyone local to me with a b18c EK9?
I am in the predicament of going from b16b to b18c. b16b is a hoot to drive, but on a track or tight b-roads it is gutless when you do have to drop slightly below 6,000rpm.
So could do with the extra grunt lower down.
What's the MPG difference likr day to day normal driving?
Only ever drove a 98spec DC2 breifly and it did feel quicker, not mental quicker just quicker. It seemed to fly through the revs.
When we had a little run in, my EK9 sat along side it however was neck and neck all the way which i found strange :/ tbf though the DC2 had just been imported and wasn't sure if my mate was rev'ing it all the way.
But thats the only thing putting me off doing it, I can't see my car being any slower with a B18c.
But my standard b16b goes really well against modded EK9s and DC2's, so would be devistated to do the swap and not be happy
Planning on going for a 98spec JDM b18c with the 98spec 4.7FD LSD S80 gearbox, just having a serious think about it at the moment.
I was reading somewhere on here that only some 98specs have the same intake camshaft as the EK9 head and some still used the 96spec intake camshaft? i know its only like 3degress different, but anyone know if this is true?
Is there anyone local to me with a b18c EK9?
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While I haven't used at B16B engined Honda (yet), I used a 98spec ITR at the weekend and I felt the engine was a lot coarser than the B16A in my Civic. Definately more power, but it felt like any other four pot driving normally where the B16 was always silky smooth, closer to the kind of smoothness from a six pot or rotary engine!
Presumably the result of the longer stroke and shorter rod/stroke ratio, but has anyone else noticed this going between the B16B and B18C? I would presume the B16B to be even smoother than the B16A by virtue of the increased RS ratio.
Then again, maybe it is just that my engine mounts are shagged...
Presumably the result of the longer stroke and shorter rod/stroke ratio, but has anyone else noticed this going between the B16B and B18C? I would presume the B16B to be even smoother than the B16A by virtue of the increased RS ratio.
Then again, maybe it is just that my engine mounts are shagged...
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Just to add my experience on this subject, I always thought about stroking my b16b to 1800cc and it might happen in the future if my car was to really need a rebuild. What you are gaining with 1800cc vs 1600cc is bit more torque which is important and better low down power, on vtec at higher revs I feel like there is less difference between b16b and b18c.
I have owned a dc2 before my ek9 and I felt like the ek9 lacked power before 6000rpm so the 1st thing I decided to do was install a 4.78 fd and this made a nice improvement and the car stayed on vtec alot easier while changing gears etc. I still wasn't happy with the low to mid range power but the engine is still very healthy not burning oil so I decided to have the car mapped on chrome with a p28 ecu. Now the vtec point is set to 5500rpm and the car pulls so much better especially low and mid range, the vtec change over is more subtle and the car is making an extra 25bhp at the wheels at 6k rpm.
I am very happy with the car now as it is easier to drive low down the revs, has power where it lacked before and basically makes standard b18c power. In the future if the engine needed a rebuild I would fit a stroker kit giving me roughly around an extra 20 ft lbs of torque and 10bhp.
For now, there is no point in splitting a perfectly good b16b that makes very good power for a n/a 1.6!!
I have owned a dc2 before my ek9 and I felt like the ek9 lacked power before 6000rpm so the 1st thing I decided to do was install a 4.78 fd and this made a nice improvement and the car stayed on vtec alot easier while changing gears etc. I still wasn't happy with the low to mid range power but the engine is still very healthy not burning oil so I decided to have the car mapped on chrome with a p28 ecu. Now the vtec point is set to 5500rpm and the car pulls so much better especially low and mid range, the vtec change over is more subtle and the car is making an extra 25bhp at the wheels at 6k rpm.
I am very happy with the car now as it is easier to drive low down the revs, has power where it lacked before and basically makes standard b18c power. In the future if the engine needed a rebuild I would fit a stroker kit giving me roughly around an extra 20 ft lbs of torque and 10bhp.
For now, there is no point in splitting a perfectly good b16b that makes very good power for a n/a 1.6!!