Turbo build enlightenment!


elchunk

elchunk

KCCO
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Can anyone recommend some good reading material for completing a turbo build. for example the thousand bloody different types of turbos, i get the numbers are the size of the housings but what does it all mean and what do you chose? Also on the likes what injectors to go for, fuel pump, ecu etc...
ta.
 
Theres loads of variables and not really any rules man so information is limited to opinions and whats been tried and tested.

This is good for leaning about the various turbo hardware.

http://turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/turbo_tech_basic/

Injectors and fueling really is a case of the more power you want/make the more fuel you will need. But again as far as I know there's no sort of rule to it if that makes sense? I mean you could build a car with a 255 l/ph fuel pump and 725 cc injectors and small turbo and make 300 hp and some one else could build a very similar car but use a lower flowing injector 550 cc and with a different tune it could make 350. But in short more power requires more fuel.

Reality is something is almost always going to be on it's limit, fuel pump maxed, feul injectors maxed, turbo on it's limits. Imo it's about finding the right balance.

This is why I love boost builds, no rules apply built it how you want with what you want. ECU wise if you go boost you need a programmable engine management system to dial in the mods. Several options but as with everything you get what you pay for. A socketed ecu is about as cheap as it gets, nothing wrong with that (it's what im running just now) but there are drawbacks. Only real time information I have is provided by gauges, new mods=new map=new chip/tuning. Hondata emulator board based, main advantage over chiped ecu the information can be viewed, data logged, adjusted in real time by plugging your laptop into ecu. These two are both based on the standard ecu so have limitations, for example you are limited in the sensors and actuators you can add in. The next step would be full stand alone engine management, very expensive in comparison but I guess it is the ultimate system as you have no limits on how you monitor the engine and control it. A good example of this would be running crank and cam shaft position sensors to control individual coils for ignition and fuel injectors on a b series engine while simultaneously running a nitrous system from the same ecu.

If im honest I guess I learned more about this kind of thing from reading the spec of cars online and in magazines than I did as a motor mechanic, it gives you an idea of parts to make a specific power. And looking at parts and systems i can only dream of ever being able to afford! Syvecs management and sequential gearboxes were hot topic in a facebook post recently lol.

You thinking about going boost?
 
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As above it is a complicated subject once you get past the pure basics of it.

Tbh it may be better if you ask a specific question/questions and then it's easier for us to answer. The science goes a long way.

As for the injectors/fueling thing rob touched on. Other than the hardware the engines Break Specific Fuel Consumption (BSFC) is a large factor into how much power you can make on a given fuel system.
For example an air cooled porsche turbo engine will have a very high BSFC and this means it needs more fuel to cool the engine and less of that fuel goes towards powering the car, I'd guess a number around 0.80
K20a on the other hand is obviously super efficient and has a BSFC of around 0.27.
I'd expect our b series to be closer to the K20a than the air cooled 911
 
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i like the idea of a turbo build. but i would be limited by the engine as i dont have the tools to build up an engine for it. so if i was to go boosted id probably try and source a b18c4 and fire a kit on it and see how it goes!
 
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I've just bought a Borg Warner turbo charger for my build pal, there good turbos and reliable, I sourced this, after looking at all the turbos on eBay too many Chinese cheap crap, or go for a Holset hx35 Garrett GT etc
 
Could be an idea for the boosted guys to post up their build parts (if your cool with that) to give others an idea of what a full turbo setup takes?
Also what have you guys done for Gauges and extra sensors?
Not trying to be a Kunt just interested in the processes.
 
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Well boys I'm looking at the go auto works kit and when I saw the cost I was like hmmm " I bet I can get a kit but by buying the parts separate si I did

I got a Borg Warner s300 turbo £150
Ram horn manifold £106
Oil feed/return lines kit £22,
Intercooler kit £160,
T piece £12
External wastegate £100
Dump valve to purchase

So it's cheaper than a lot of the kits from America and I'm not gunna pay import tax either
 
hey guys

I originally used a kit pieced up by Treadstone Performance in Miami, if I remember right it was about £1600 including delivery

the kit included

Turbonetics T3/04E Journal bearing
Turbonetics Evo Wastegate
HKS SSQV blow off valve
Treadstone intercooler
treadstone intercooler piping
oil line delivery/return

I learnt so much from that turbo build what not to use and what to use what works and what don't work, my B20/B16 made 289.1 wheel horsepower at 12psi at 11-1 compression ratio and was tuned by Sam at TDI PLC.

you got to remember depending what power and what psi you are gonna run depends on what you need.

My b20 was always limited to the amount of boost I could run, so I started again with a new engine build and started from scratch, I found out stuff that worked and didn't work from my previous build and applied it to this build and I still got things a bit wrong so its now having an update and **** load more power.

I wanted 500bhp at 30psi

I will put it in catergories for the build

B18C4 HEAD

Brian Crower Stage 2 Turbo cams - turbo cams shut a lot quicker to stop Valve over lap, if you pump 30 psi inside whilst both valves are open you will blow half of that compressed fuel air mixture back out the exhaust
with bigger cams I needed springs, retainers, valves. horse power freaks was doing a black Friday deal 30% off all BC products so I bought the whole valve train.

changed stem seals and valve guides whilst head was off

Stainless steel studs on intake and exhaust - I found on my first build standard studs and bolts couldn't take the heat and eventually snapped

B18C Block

Darton sleeves
wiseco pistons 8.8-1 cpr 84mm
eagle h beam rods
apr head studs
apr main studs
cometic gasket kit
cometic head gasket 0.50"
new oil pump
acl bearings all round
morroso kicked out sump
oil filter relocation and oil cooler (had to change the oil filter connector to a b20z connector)
charcoal canister removed and hole blocked
2 x 10an block ports to catch can

I used my old gearbox S4C R4
KAAZ 1.5 LSD
Clutch masters series725 twin plate ceramic clutch and flywheel
Drive shaft shop drive shafts level 2.5 (425bhp snap tested)

Turbo/intercooler/intake/ancils

Turbonetics GTK500
TOURQUES 4an water lines
TOURQUES 10an oil return plumbed straight into morosso sump
TOURQUES 3an OIL FEED (all an hoses had to be made, was not a kit)
NO name oil restrictor
treadstone intercooler kit
treadstone intercooler designed for 350z
tial waste gate
custom screamer pipe
custom 2.5 inch down pipe
SPA Top mount manifold
HKS SSQV
ptp TURBO BLANKET
PTP exhaust wrap
hondata thermal intake gasket
mr gasket copper exhaust gaskets
blox 70mm throttle body
edelbrock victor x intake manifold
stainless steel studs for turbo
race battery in boot to make way for BWR catch can
skunk2 76mm exhaust

Cooling

koyo aluminium rad
fal slim line fan (mounted in front of rad and polarity switched to pusher due to room in engine bay)
tegiwa white coolant hoses

Fueling

full blown twin walboro conversion
torques 8an Teflon feed
torques 6an Teflon return
torques an fittings all round
aem fuel rail
aeromotive fpr
fuelab fuel filter
Injector dynamics 1000cc injectors

ignition

MSD DIZZY
MSD Blaster coil
MSD coil driver
MSD Leads
MSD 6al igniton amplifier
ngk iridium plugs heat range 10 (as a rule of thumb go down a heat range per 100 hp)

electronics

HONDATA S300
AEM UEGO AFR wired into s300 as primary 02 with gauge
AEM Tru boost controller and gauge
AEM temp into turbo sensor and gauge (full boost sees temps of around 1200c)
AEM Oil pressure gauge
AEM Fuel pressure gauge

the engine made 421 at 25 psi at TDI North

things learnt and mistakes made and new improvements

the whole exhaust system was to restrictive the SPA top mount manifold has been changed for BWR Top mount,
the 2.5 inch down pipe has been changed for 3 inch with v band,
wastegate has been changed to v band, the gaskets just cant take the heat and psi,
the oil line restrictor came with a brass elbow this has been changed to aluminium, the brass elbow weakened with the heat and sprayed oil out everywhere which soaked into the heat wrap and turbo blanket causing a massive engine fire,
catchcan set up was changed due to cotton filters being blocked causing over pressure and white smoke,
more research and advice sought for turbo choice, the gtk500 will make 500bhp depending on engine, on a 3.0 straight 6 no problem, on a 1933cc 4 pot it was a push, the new turbo is a precision 6766, the turbo will make around 1000bhp on a 3.0 straight 6 so should in theory make around 700bhp on my B18 plus the new turbo will be v band as the studs snapped,
new head gasket back to standard 0.30 clearance, in hindsight the 0.50 clearance was to much and made the engine very sluggish off boost

sorry if it sounded like a build thread

hope you found the build slightly interesting
 
Engine

Short block supplied by IPG-Parts.com, machine work carried out by Mazworx Racing Engines in Florida.

B18C1 Block & Crank
84mm Darton Sleeves with copper O rings
Carrillo Pro H connecting rods
CP 9.7:1 pistons
ACL race bearings
GE oil squirter block offs
ARP main bearing studs
Genuine Honda rear main oil seal
Genuine Honda oil pump
Myhondahabit sump pan stud kit
Genuine Honda Sump gasket
Moroso 5.5 capacity kicked out sump pan with trap doors to keep oil at the pick up during acceleration/deceleration/cornering
Magnetic Sump Plug
Torques UK Barb style fitting for turbo oil return
Torques UK adaptor for oil temp probe
Go-Autoworks T piece for oil feed
SPA Remote oil line with T piece for oil pressure sender and switch
Mocal thermostatic oil cooler adaptor sandwich plate with Torques 90 degree fittings
Torques -10AN hose
16 Row oil cooler
Block ported and bung fitted to original PCV port
Large Oil catch can with torques fittings and hose

Head was supplied buy a forum Member @Jdm Dc2 type rx with machine work carried out to an extremely high standard.

DC2 Cylinder head
Skimmed
Three angle valve seats cut
Genuine Honda valves
Genuine Honda valve stem seals
Rocket Motorsports valve springs
OE EK9 retainers
OE EK9 cam shafts
OE EK9 Intake manifold
OE EK9 Throttle body
Tegiwa thermo TB gasket
GE 84mm Cylinder head gasket
ARP Head studs
Skunk2 Pro Series Adjustable cam pulleys
Gates Racing Timing belt
Genuine Honda tensioner
Blue Print water pump
Genuine Honda Inlet manifold Gasket
Genuine Honda Exhaust manifold Gasket
Genuine Honda VTEC solenoid gasket
Genuine Honda upgraded LMA springs
NGK BCR8ES Spark Plugs
Magnecore 8mm HT leads
Genuine Honda Rocker cover gasket and plug seals
Rocker cover ported and original breather removed and welded over
Rocker cover professionally painted gloss black & cam pulley cover trimmed
Carbon Fibre plug cover
Mishimoto radiator and hoses

Turbo Kit


Go-Autoworks Pro Kit

Go-Autoworks SS Full ramhorn manifold
Garrett GT3076R .63AR Ball bearing turbo
Tail 44mm MVR Wastegate
3” SS Downpipe with WG dump pipe recirculated back in
Extra 02 sensor bung
Go-Autoworks Large Bar & Plate Intercooler
Go-Autoworks 2.5” Alloy IC pipe work with black silicone couplers and stainless clamps
Tial 50mm Q BOV
Full 3” Custom straight through exhaust by Stainless Creations
Replacement short Flexi by Original Fabrications
Braided water lines
Stainless oil line
SpeedFlow Oil line restrictor
MAC 4 port Boost Solenoid

Fuelling
Walbro 255 l/ph fuel pump
Fuel Pump Relay (switched by original fuel pump feed)
Inline fuel filter
AEM Fuel Rail
Torques fittings for rail and regulator
BlackWorks Racing Fuel Pressure gauge on rail with 90 degree adaptor
Aeromotive Fuel Pressure Regulator
Injector Nation 1000cc Injectors
Injector plugs properly soldered in place of Honda plugs

Engine Management & Instrumentation

USDM ECU Socketed and Mapped on Neptune
AEM Digital Boost Pressure Gauge kit
PLX Wideband set up with Bosch LSU 4.9 sensor
Hondata 4 Bar MAP sensor
SPA Design Oil Pressure & Temperature Gauge
Double gauge mount speedo bezel
Fighter Plane Style Switch for boost solenoid
Custom Grounding Wire Kit
Launch Control


Made 493.2 @ 1.5 bar. Mapped by Aonghus... Back on the dyno in May!
 
Wow, a lot more in a boosted build than you'd originally think isn't there!
I think these guys have covered a comprehensive build list so I won't bother lol
 
That's pure lay under the bonnet stuff, steering suspension and brakes also need to be taken into consideration. But the two lists posted are both on the bigger side. You don't need a sleeved or forged block. It really comes down to what you want to get out of it
 
Just reading through robthedocs write up and I forgot loads of stuff lol

That's the thing both them builds are on the extreme side.

My first build was a b16a2 head with dc2 cams and valve train

B20z block with arias pistons and eagle rods

Aem rail and for and wolboro 255lph and rc 650 injectors

And an msd external coil and leads

And stage 4 clutch.

Getting all the basics is one thing, it's not forgetting the minor things like plugs, map sensor and stuff.

But i can't stress enough and as I said in a previous post, when using a t piece for oil lines check the thread pattern, my friend and I bought the same kit from eBay and my t piece screwed into my b20z no proble, my friends b16a2 from a Jordan was a different thread and it splayed the threads and cracked and wrote of the block, it is very soul destroying seeing your fully built block scraped for something so small.

We had been working on b series engines for years and we was both unaware of the different threads between a b20 and b16
 
I didn't know they were different mate but I've never dealt with b20. I had an argument with a guy on Facebook who was saying that 1/8 bsp and npt will both work if you put thread tape on and tighten up!
 
robthedoc said:
I didn't know they were different mate but I've never dealt with b20. I had an argument with a guy on Facebook who was saying that 1/8 bsp and npt will both work if you put thread tape on and tighten up!
Click to expand...

Not only this but I recently learnt that bsp has two versions of 1/8.
Bspt(tapered) and bspp(parallel) luckily I bought the correct tap the first time lol
 
Yeah I never knew there was a difference, I really felt for my mate I thought he was gonna cry, just spent months building the block sourcing all the parts, turbos, 1000 mile running in on NA Then all that hard work getting the engine in and intercooler to fit to turn the key and oil pissed out every where.

He bought a b16a2 block from a del sol built it back up and a month's time it was all back in and ready for tuning, he got 317 wheel hp at 22psi, he would of gone further but his clutch gave out around 22psi, it was an exedy stage 2 about 12 months old and couldn't take the power.

But at 317 whp it still shifted :drive:
 
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My turbo arrived today so did a test fit and result is ......... Fits nicely on the ram horn manifold, I had to move the cold side as it was facing the song way but after some persuasion is not in correct position
 
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