official superchargers vs. turbochargers thread: pros and cons all explained


blinx9900

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a while back kagetora asked me a question the answer was so long i thought i should make a new thread as it did have a lot of good tech info and cleared up some misconseptions, here was the original question:

questions for you guys about TURBO!! :confused:

#1 Is aftermarket Turbo Engine good for daily driving?

#2 If youre gonna put a turbo on youre Engine. Which Engine is suited for Aftermarket Turbo? example: D16, B16, K20.....

#3 Which Turbo are reliable or will last long? Brand?

#4 Which is much better, Turbo or Supercharge?

#5 If you had a Turbo, do you need to check youre Turbo if there's no oil leak or something,Yes or No? If yes how many times.....??

#6 My friend says Slow Engine is much easier to Tune for a Turbo... Faster Engine like Type R is much harder to Tune.... is he right or wrong?

you have asked many complicated questions, i will do my best to address each one, one at a time, i hope you have some time to read because this is going to be a long one.

1. if tuned correctly a turbocharged car should have minimal problems with daily use, you just need to check your oil often, make sure you change oil every 2000 miles, and make sure your fuel system and plugs are always good.

2. all engines are good candidates for turbo, some are better than others, i will explain why in my answer to questions 6. so keep reading.

3. there are a lot of good turbo companies out there like garrett, IHI, mitsubishi heavy industries, borg warner, turbonetics etc... how long they last depends on you. if well maintained (oil changed on time/using a turbo timer/using an oil restricor if necessary/proper bov) and depending on how hard you drive the car, and how much boost your making the turbo put out. they should last you a decent amount of time. companies like greddy/hks/blitz design and sell turbo's as well but they actually dont build them, they usually have them built by a more reputable turbocharger comany for example:

HKS turbos are built by garrett
Greddy turbos are built by mitsubishi
Apexi turbos are built by IHI

4. this is hotly debated issue, turbo is free horsepower as it uses exhuast energy to make power, supercharger uses the crank to make power so it actually takes power to make power, usually takes about 15-30hp to spin a supercharger.

there are 2 main kinds of superchargers ROOTS aka positive displacement and cintrifugal. each has an intended application and accels in its own area, read on to learn more about each type of supercharger and turbochargers:

ROOTS/positive displacement supercharger
pros: easy to install, boost pressure is instant so as soon as you hit the gas you have loads more tq and hp even at low revs.
cons: runs off the crank so its not as efficient as a turbo, by design as rpm increases efficiency decreases so these things usually max out at around 12-15psi and dont make very much power past that. they are very hard to intercool so you get a lot of hot air in your motor which can cause detonation.
what there good for: low revving engines, vehicles that tow/haul, street driven cars that dont want the complexity of a turbo or centrifufal SC and dont mind sacrificing hp and tq.

any vtec b-series motor with this type or SC will have approximately 210whp or below, most likely below and the top end power will not be very strong. but you will have more tq at lower revs. i know there are some people who have made 250-280 on these superchargers but its not that common for the average user.


turbocharger
pros: free hp, makes the most top end hp and the most TQ, a good turbo will spool very early almost as early as a roots type supercharger so it will make power down low aswell, turbo's generally make more tq at higher revs. by design as rpm increases power production increases so its a perfect design for high reving honda engines, easy to intercool. HUGE selection of different turbochargers/parts/accessories to fit your need. makes the most power.
cons: harder to install, heats up engine bay, takes more time to do the research and find the right turbo for you, can be more expensive as some turbos cost more than an entirec supercharger kit. takes up a bit more room than roots sc.
what there good for: depending on how its set up there is a turbo that will fit any application, with that said, turbos are good for everything.

any b-series vtec with a good turbo/manifold and tune will have approximately 230-290whp!! currently the highest hp b-series is a turbo making about 1200whp, so as you can see if you want huge power all you need is a built motor and a turbo to match it :nice:

centrifugal supercharger
pros: linear powerband, designed after turbocharger but spins off the crank so its kind of a compramise between the two, easy to install, easier to intercool than roots, make a little more top end power than roots but less than turbo. street friendly, require less maintenance than a turbo.
cons: very expensive, linear powerband, belt drive design requires power to make power, does not make as much top end as a turbo. does not make as much low end power as a roots or a properly sized turbo.
what there good for: people who like linear power bands, street cars, people who dont want the complexity of a turbo kit but still want more top end power than a roots can give. higher revving motors.

typical vtec bserise with this type of SC will have approximately 200-230whp, once again some people have made more but its not common.

5. turbo maintenance is important, you want to check your oil level ever week if you can, just to make sure you have enough oil as turbo's sometimes burn oil when driven hard. also good to make sure your spark plugs are good and your fuel filter is good.

6. what your friend is referring to is compression, the higher the compression the more chance it will detonate under boost however this can all be corrected with proper tunning and fuel, that is the reason i have chosen to purchase AEM EMS for my turbo project as the b16b is high compression and can detonate if not tuned properly. if tuned properly you can turbo any compression engine, even 12:1!!

hope this helps, i think im going to make this a sticky since it took me like 30 mins to type my opinion is high revving honda engines are best suited for a turbocharger, if you street drive your car and NEVER go into the higher rpms then you may enjoy a SC over a turbo.
 
Blinx: Not every tuner is qualified to tune 12CR, I don't think many are confident either, but that would yeld some serious powerband.. :nice:

And for street users: remember, don't be greedy with boost. :)
 
Blinx: Not every tuner is qualified to tune 12CR, I don't think many are confident either, but that would yeld some serious powerband.. :nice:

And for street users: remember, don't be greedy with boost. :)

you are correct on both counts, even at 12cr you can tune it but you cant really run more than 6psi from a t3/t04e size turbo. and i certainly dont recomend running 11-12 cr and boost.
 
thread moved to FI, hopefully more people get a chance to see it now...
 
for my b16b to do arrond 300 whp wath the best turbo or pack do i have to change a lot on the engine?

well it really depends, i suggest a thicker headgasket and headstuds at minimum and a good tuner of course...
 
based on my experience the supercharger is better in circuit racing because of its acceleration then the turbo has more speed to give but not that fast in accelerating.. I have a ek9(b16b supercharged) for about 225whp, my friends got eg(d15b turbo) which can go 300whp..
 
based on my experience the supercharger is better in circuit racing because of its acceleration then the turbo has more speed to give but not that fast in accelerating.. I have a ek9(b16b supercharged) for about 225whp, my friends got eg(d15b turbo) which can go 300whp..

on a short lower speed course a supercharger like the JRSC could have an advantage, the track is going to make a BIG difference.
 
I think if you run a quick spooling turbo like a t28 ball bearing you could still have close to the effect of a sc, and with tuning it would be great for track to, dont forget about top fuel and there cars how well the go on track, we imported an ex top fuel car b18c eg runnin 540bhp and it is great also we built a jrden with greedy turbo kit on it and that is brill to runnin around 260bhp all day long, i build NA engines mostly but looking to develop my own turbo kit soon, ps blinx your setup looks wicked what u runnin, JP
 
B16 IS AMAZING, i only have the ek4 and i want to supercharge or turbo mine. i have the money but dont no where the best place to go to get it done any idea's???
cheers
 
To lower compression of a 2000 Model DC2 Integra type R, Can i just replace the type r pistons with a Integra VTIR ?

They are both B18C engines, and from what i understand, all B18C have 81 * 87.2 Bore and Stroke, making the 1,797 deplacement..

Can someone please let me know if it will fit, and will it significatly lower compression for small T28 turbo + 6 PSI boost max ? ( Im thinking of compression 10 flat )
 
To lower compression of a 2000 Model DC2 Integra type R, Can i just replace the type r pistons with a Integra VTIR ?

They are both B18C engines, and from what i understand, all B18C have 81 * 87.2 Bore and Stroke, making the 1,797 replacement..

Can someone please let me know if it will fit, and will it significantly lower compression for small T28 turbo + 6 PSI boost max ? ( I’m thinking of compression 10 flat )
 
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