Official EK4 - EK9 Comparison


thanks for the write up :)
 
Not a problem guys.

I will be adding to it soon as i have recently fitted coilovers and breathing mods. Lets put it this way if i didn't have the B18C in my garage i wouldn't swap it it for the B16B.
 
ijwhiteman said:
Not a problem guys.

I will be adding to it soon as i have recently fitted coilovers and breathing mods. Lets put it this way if i didn't have the B18C in my garage i wouldn't swap it it for the B16B.
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nice to rev it hard.. i think its part of the package ;)
 
i finally know what you mean. i have mine since last wednesday and it's just driving on a whole new level. i absolutely love it!
 
As for the 0-100 performance, 5,7sec was measured on asia vtec-net. Still, i haven't seen this measurement repeating so i wouldn't take it too seriously.

I can admit that there is no comparison in stock handling between ek4s and ek9s. However it is hard to accept that an ek4 can't become better if tuned properly. Bear in mind that ek9 has a stock lsd, better shocks springs, more bars, bigger rear swaybar. All these can give better handling and more steering weight and feedback. A noticeable difference is seen when adding 1.5way lsd almost of any brand. Seriously i don't think it's nuclear physics or a top secret issue when it comes to handling of 2, basically, same cars.200extra kgs in a front wheel drive car, without an lsd, with softer bushings, softer sping rates and worse shocks, less body rigidity etc can explain in my opinion the handling differences.

Bear in mind that rnd and honda tuning has advanced rapidly these days.


Don't get me wrong, this is my personal opinion.
 
ijwhiteman said:
In terms of driving there is no comparison a standard EK4 feels heavy and slugish and rolls badley in corners. The rear wheels never followed the front wheels and it would understeer all the time. Upon exiting the corner you would have to wait until you had exited before applying full throttle. Even when i had put a B18c in and fitted coilovers, camber correctors, EK9 rear arb with asr brace, tower braces, strut braces, roll cage, had a fast road setup done, and stripped over 200kgs from the car it was still not a touch on my EK9. It was better and it handled well don't get me wrong but how can i beat a company like Honda that have developed an EK9 for track? Its amazing how the EK9 a front wheel drive car feels like a rear wheel drive and does not understeer... INCREDIBLE :bow: You can get on the power so early and the LSD just pulls you arround the corner the suspension is so great it is actually making me debate wether or not to fit my coilovers in fear of ruining the handling.... :p
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This just insprires me to get a ek9 instead of a jordan!!!
BUT...
i think im going to get the jordan anyway but not spend money on it and just keep saving for a 9 :D
 
babyface said:
if read on speedo, then it is inaccurate. use an extenal device, if not already done so, directly to/from the ecu for a more precise figure
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:nice:

at 180kms on my clocks and rsm my sat nav is reading only 170kms...

bit off topic but i do think thats the main reason people dont get stopped for speeding when they think they should have been...

Anyway, i've owned both and even my SiR with coilovers, all adjustable everything and properly set up etc etc couldnt outperform my standard suspension'd EK9 on track :)
 
incredible write up, many thanks.

do believe the 0-60 to be a tad quicker than 6.7 though,

but as youve said it all depends on conditions

but as for saying the speedo is out, this is true for top end as the error percentage is higher but for 0-60 the speedo will be 2 maybe 3 mph out :)

tried in my current car using sat nav :)

getting a 9 sometime next year this just fills me with excitement and anticipation
 
saxophonias said:
As for the 0-100 performance, 5,7sec was measured on asia vtec-net. Still, i haven't seen this measurement repeating so i wouldn't take it too seriously.

I can admit that there is no comparison in stock handling between ek4s and ek9s. However it is hard to accept that an ek4 can't become better if tuned properly. Bear in mind that ek9 has a stock lsd, better shocks springs, more bars, bigger rear swaybar. All these can give better handling and more steering weight and feedback. A noticeable difference is seen when adding 1.5way lsd almost of any brand. Seriously i don't think it's nuclear physics or a top secret issue when it comes to handling of 2, basically, same cars.200extra kgs in a front wheel drive car, without an lsd, with softer bushings, softer sping rates and worse shocks, less body rigidity etc can explain in my opinion the handling differences.

Bear in mind that rnd and honda tuning has advanced rapidly these days.


Don't get me wrong, this is my personal opinion.
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I agree 100% :nice:
 
Some useful info, not sure if it's been posted before but seems relevant here anyway!

Highlights of B16B 98 Spec R compared to B16A

B16B98R.jpg


Highlights behind the high-RPM, high-output of the B16B 98 SpecR.

In order to increase the power output by 15 hp, and the max RPM by 200RPM, the engine goes through many upgrades. It should be noted that the B18C spec.R's cylinder block is used for its endurance.

The translations for the numbered labels in the diagram are:

1. Cylinder Head - Complete port & polish
2. Exhaust Valve Spring - High-lift, dual-layered spring
3. Sparkplug - High-heat-type #7 platinum plug
4. Pistons - High-compression, low-friction, custom pistons
5. Connecting Rod - High-output, high-durability, lightened, custom conrod
6. Engine Stiffener - Aluminum die-cast, high-durability, one-piece type
7. Crankshaft - Full-balancer, 8-weight, high-output, custom crankshaft
8. Inlet Valves - Lightened inlet valves
9. Inlet Valve Springs - High-lift, flat-surfaced, dual-layered spring
10. Camshaft - Wide-angled, high-lift, high-durability camshaft
11. Intake Manifold - High-RPM type.

Engine Type B16A
Maximum Output: 170ps/7800rpm
Maximum Torque: 16.0kg-m/7300rpm
Bore x Stroke: 81.0x77.4mm <- same
Displacement: 1595cc <- same
Compression: P10.4
Maximum RPM: 8400rpm
Valve Timing at 1mm lift IN Open/Close: BTDC15/ABDC45
Valve Timing at 1mm lift EX Open/Close: BBDC40/ATDC7
Valve Lift: IN 10.7mm, EX 9.4mm
Inlet Valve Diamter: 33mm x 2mm <- same
Spark Plug Type: Heat Rate #6
Throttle Bore Diameter: 60mm <- same
Intake Manifold: Single pipe sideflow
Air Intake Diameter: 65mm <- same
Exhaust Manifold: 4-to-2 <- same
Exhaust Pipe Diameter: 57.2mm
Silencer Flow Capacity: 115liter/sec

Engine Type: B16B 98 Spec.R
Maximum Output: 185ps/8200rpm
Maximum Torque: 16.3kg-m/7500rpm
Bore x Stroke: 81.0x77.4mm <- same
Displacement: 1595cc <- same
Compression: 10.8
Maximum RPM: 8400rpm
Valve Timing at 1mm lift IN Open/Close: BTDC18/ABDC45
Valve Timing at 1mm lift EX Open/Close: BBDC45/ATDC10
Valve Lift: IN 11.5mm, EX 10.5mm
Inlet Valve Diamter: 33mm x 2mm <- same
Spark Plug Type: Heat Rate #7 platinum
Throttle Bore Diameter: 60mm <- same
Intake Manifold: Single pipe sideflow (different manifold)
Air Intake Diameter: 65mm <- same
Exhaust Manifold: 4-to-2 <- same
Exhaust Pipe Diameter: 57.2mm
Silencer Flow Capacity: 115liter/sec

The camshaft profiles (wild cam) change from B16A 160ps to 170ps and finally to B16B are :

Cam Profile: B16A 160ps
Max Lift (IN/EX): 10.4/9.4
Open Timing (IN/EX): BTDC 10/BBDC 40
Close Timing (IN/EX): ABDC 40/ATDC 5

Cam Profile: B16A 170ps
Max Lift (IN/EX): 10.7/9.4
Open Timing (IN/EX): BTDC 15/BBDC 40
Close Timing (IN/EX): ABDC 45/ATDC 7

Cam Profile: B16B 98R
Max Lift (IN/EX): 11.5/10.5
Open Timing (IN/EX): BTDC 18/BBDC 45
Close Timing (IN/EX): BTDC 45/ATDC 10

Different pistons are responsible for the compression ratio increases between 160ps & 170ps B16A and the 10.8 ratio for B16B. Readily apparent is the relatively modest change in piston top between B16A 160ps and B16A 170ps for the 10.2 to 10.4 change. However, the radically different piston top for B16B is very clear from the picture. The increase in compression ratio between B16B from B16A is 0.4.

pistons.jpg


On B16B, the inlet ports are manually ported to increase air-flow. The exhaust ports are identical to B16A

porthead.jpg


valves.jpg


B16B intake valve seats are at a different angle to B16A, 45 degrees vs 60 degrees. The intake valves are also different, being lighter and having a thinner valve stem.

b16power.jpg


On the left are the power curves for B16A 170ps versus B16B. Note the big gain in power after 6000rpm, the VTEC switch-over point between mild and wild cam profiles. The gain at extreme high rpms is readily apparent on the curves.

Various individual specifications for B16B can teach us about the feasibility of various modifications to B16A. For eg, the throttle bore diameter for B16B is identical to B16A at 60mm. This means that enlarged throttle bodies for B16A might not be an optimal mod or that a compromise in power delivery might result, eg loss of low-end power in return for gain in high-end power. Note that B16B has identical low and mid range power as B16A.

As with B18C Spec R, the wonder of B16B is the assurance of a 15 to 25ps gain in power on a B16A provided the tuning done by Honda can be completely replicated. Nevertheless even if only a portion can be duplicated, combining with properly designed aftermarket exhaust, headers, and intake could still potentially realize this 15ps gain.


Source: http://asia.vtec.net/beystock/honda/civicr/
 
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Go0d info i realize maybe next year of for my b-day i would have my first ek9 RHD in florida,,, as it 0riginal :lol: hopefully for a go0d price to0
 
one thing i have to say is the ek4 can do well more than 129mph. experienced this myslef. had a mates off the clock :nice:
 
Mike Duff - dc2 said:
aem long arm and skunk 2 with hks header, decat

surely that cant take a restrictor away
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Its not restricted to that. It'll be the power of the motor that takes it higher up the 00mph. You have freed up power so the engine can keep revving. My old EK4 played with (B16A2) did arround 137mph. Not stock
 
Hey can anyone tell me why my 9 and four of my mates ek9's when ticking over and when reving is much "noiser", if thats the correct term, than my other mates ek4 which by comparison is much more on the quiet side. just out of a matter of interest
 
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