B16B LMAs


WhiteSlipsWithStickers

WhiteSlipsWithStickers

New Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
14
Car(s)
1992 Civic DX with B16B
I have a 99 B16B in my car and the valvetrain is incredibly noisy even after getting the valve adjustment perfect. I've done all kinds of research and can't find what type of LMAs the B16Bs had from the factory. I know some of the B16A, B18C1, B18C5 etc. had piston type LMAs that were known to fail, but wasn't sure if the B16Bs had spring type LMAs or piston from the factory. Before I tore the head apart to replace them, wanted to see if they were even the piston type that failed. Any insight would be appreciated.

Here's some pictures of my car that I figured I'd share since I'm new to the site. Thanks.

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The b18c in my imported teg was the piston type. I replaced them with the spring type ones iirc (partly as they are much cheaper)
 
Theyll be the same as the b18c. Im 95% sure the b16b head i had was piston type.
 
I hear the spring type ones are better too right (?) less chance of them sticking and simply a better design I heard. Also sweet eg :nice: looking super clean!
 
Puggie said:
The b18c in my imported teg was the piston type. I replaced them with the spring type ones iirc (partly as they are much cheaper)
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Understood. I think I'm going to upgrade to the Science of Speed spring type LMAs. That's the brand most 1st gen NSX guys upgrade to, so I trust they will be good in a B16B also.

jesse888 said:
Theyll be the same as the b18c. Im 95% sure the b16b head i had was piston type.
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Thanks for confirming. I had a lot of people respond to me on Instagram this weekend with good info as well. I guess Honda all over the world realized that the piston type LMAs were failing and stopped production of the piston type sometime in 99. Any Integra Type-R, CTR, etc. mfd after 99 had spring type LMAs, but everything prior to that had piston.

Pete180 said:
I hear the spring type ones are better too right (?) less chance of them sticking and simply a better design I heard. Also sweet eg :nice: looking super clean!
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They are definitely better and a simpler design. Honda even stopped making the piston type as part replacements after a certain point. Thanks man! I'm really happy with how she's turning out.
 
Any way you would upload a video of the noise these make for future reference?
 
Klasse said:
Apparently Honda updated all replacement B series LMAs from hydraulic to spring at some point BUT for some reason B18C Type R (and I guess B16B) are still officially hydraulic. But everyone says get spring. You can do h22a LMA + washer for cheaper but seems messy. For additional confusion read here:
http://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/*new*-b-series-lma-info-2312727/page12/#post50869691
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I'll take a look at that thread too. I'm going to order Science of Speed LMAs most likely.

Buckyy said:
Any way you would upload a video of the noise these make for future reference?
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I'll see if I can get a good video of it. My phone mic sounds horrible, but I'll get the GoPro out and try to get one. It sounds like a really bad valve lash adjustment, but the valves are perfectly adjusted and they still make a racket because the Vtec rocker is just flopping around.
 
When adjusting the valves you mean? I have a set of metric and a set of inch feeler gauges and made 100% they were to factory spec. It has to be the LMAs.
 
WhiteSlipsWithStickers said:
When adjusting the valves you mean? I have a set of metric and a set of inch feeler gauges and made 100% they were to factory spec. It has to be the LMAs.
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Yes, it has happened before!! so was just making sure.:nice:
I have been lucky with LMAs never had a noisy set yet!!
 
I adjusted them a few times to get them perfect and I double checked everything with the next size up feeler gauge and they were good to go. This engine likely sat for a long time since it came from who knows what country and was imported to California by boat then shipped to me via 3 week freight to Oklahoma 1500 miles away. I think when the engines sit too much is when the LMAs go bad. I sure hope that's the only issue because I really don't feel like having the head rebuilt....
 
What are the symptoms you're having? I'm wondering if they're the same as mine and if it is my lmas that are making noise. On cold start ups I have this rattle for 2 seconds then stops. When warm it's only between 2-3k rpm. 99% sure it's head doesn't sound bottom end, oils fine, hasn't got any worse or affected power.
 
Pete180 said:
What are the symptoms you're having? I'm wondering if they're the same as mine and if it is my lmas that are making noise. On cold start ups I have this rattle for 2 seconds then stops. When warm it's only between 2-3k rpm. 99% sure it's head doesn't sound bottom end, oils fine, hasn't got any worse or affected power.
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Mine is a constant tapping until it crosses over to Vtec. If I hold the engine at partial throttle to keep the intake and exhaust quiet at about 6500 the valves make absolutely no noise which leads me to believe it has to be LMAs. The higher the RPM the smoother the tapping gets, but it doesn't go away until the Vtec rocker is locked and not flopping around on the cam. Yours honestly sounds like a valve adjustment issue if it's only happening in a certain RPM below Vtec. Have you adjusted the valve lash?
 
WhiteSlipsWithStickers said:
Mine is a constant tapping until it crosses over to Vtec. If I hold the engine at partial throttle to keep the intake and exhaust quiet at about 6500 the valves make absolutely no noise which leads me to believe it has to be LMAs. The higher the RPM the smoother the tapping gets, but it doesn't go away until the Vtec rocker is locked and not flopping around on the cam. Yours honestly sounds like a valve adjustment issue if it's only happening in a certain RPM below Vtec. Have you adjusted the valve lash?
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Nope not yet but that's a first port of call! :nice: ah right okay, yeah I believe checking the LMAs isn't too difficult right (?) after watching a few videos. Just remove the cover and check all 8 by pressing the centre rocker with your thumb to see if it springs back smoothly, or if it sticks a bit.
 
WhiteSlipsWithStickers said:
Mine is a constant tapping until it crosses over to Vtec. If I hold the engine at partial throttle to keep the intake and exhaust quiet at about 6500 the valves make absolutely no noise which leads me to believe it has to be LMAs. The higher the RPM the smoother the tapping gets, but it doesn't go away until the Vtec rocker is locked and not flopping around on the cam. Yours honestly sounds like a valve adjustment issue if it's only happening in a certain RPM below Vtec. Have you adjusted the valve lash?
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Remove the rocker cover and check the LMA's on each cylinder when at TDC, should be pretty easy to identify a bad LMA by simply pressing down on the vtec rocker.
 
Funny thing- I just went through this on my own B18C. Its always had a bit of a "tick", but LMA's can be kinda noisy, so I turned the other cheek.
That was until last week I started my car cold, and for the first 3 seconds, it made a super loud ticking sound. Much like the sound of a loose valve. Once my oil pressure light went off it was half as loud but still way too noisy for me to be ok with. Betting that it was the LMA's. I replaced them this weekend with the new updated part number and the abnormal noise is no longer present. The new LMA's are so much quieter, that I can real enjoy the harmonics of the valve train. I highly recommend this upgrade if not already done.
When checking the LMA's out of the engine, none of them "really felt bad"- a couple had a little sticky point, or catch (very minor) is pressed to the side and over loaded it. But I never did find one that was the obvious smoking gun.
If VTEC crossover happens with out issue, you have no check engine lights on, or codes stored, the car drives well and normal- I would bet its your LMA's. Good luck on getting to the bottom of it.

PS- if you buy them from Honda, you'll never have to buy them again, and your know the R+D is in there- Just my 2 cents.
 
MotorMo said:
PS- if you buy them from Honda, you'll never have to buy them again, and your know the R+D is in there- Just my 2 cents.
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x2, depends on the deal you can get etc but OEM seem to be only slightly more expensive than aftermarket ones.
 
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