Am I crazy??


Ramvtec

Ramvtec

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
191
Right im planing on doing a build for tin tops of the vtec challange next year, the thing is I have always been ek till I die (fought this battle with my mates many a time lol), the thing is I got a bit to thinking and where I am at is maybe a dc for track would be better/ more stable in the corners due to the longer wheel base? That I suppose could be answered by some of the lads that already race ek's and dc's, the plan was originally for a B20 as I already hav a block etc but now I weighing it up and I think a K20 would be the way to go?

Most of my knowledge has been with B series which I love very much but looks like K series is where to go when it comes to racing atm, plan is for about 260bhp ish fairly flexible as the build will go along.

Just throwing the question out there lads to see if ye have any comments to share or views/ideas to hit me with?

Cheers JP
 
Well I don't know about the different chassis but if your looking for 260 bhp for racing its going to be almost easy to get that out of the K where as its going to be a highly strung B for that. Just the reliability would swing me towards the K
 
Ek has a longer wheelbase than the dc2 mate and the ek9 tends to handle better than a dc2 when set up correctly. Dc2 with the larger rear tends to produce slightly more oversteer entering corners
 
If you're gonna go for an extreme engine setup then I'd say stick to an EK then at least the vast majority of the car you already know inside out. Plus EK parts are more readily available on the 2nd hand market.

Perhaps do a season or two in a civic then aim for a teg once you've got a bullet proof engine setup and just swap it all over.
 
I would spend a season getting used to the whole racing experience rather than trying to build the most powerful spec car you can afford. Spend the money on handling and tuition this year, as you're not going to jump in the car and win straight off if you've not done any racing before.
I've done the same this season, shelled out on head skims, valve lapping etc to get as much out of the engine as possible, it lasted 1 round (2 races). I stuck a standard engine in and spent the time setting the car up properly - not to book, but to similar settings other drivers in the paddock were running.
Then spent more time in the car. I found spending the money on the practice day before the race weekend cut my laptimes on tracks I hadn't driven by around 10 seconds. It also meant I wasn't using the qualifying as a practice session and could be straight on the pace.

The first season is more about learning than smashing lap records. Yes you might not have the quickest car out there, but there's no point having a quick car if the nut behind the wheel can't drive it and the car keeps breaking down because it's built to within an inch of blowing :)

You'll have as much fun battling with someone who's evenly matched with you mid-pack than fending off the leaders who've probably been racing for the last 10 years and push you into a stupid mistake.
 
SPek9 said:
Ek has a longer wheelbase than the dc2 mate and the ek9 tends to handle better than a dc2 when set up correctly. Dc2 with the larger rear tends to produce slightly more oversteer entering corners
Click to expand...

I can't agree with you or disagree about that because I havnt looked into it lol, I know that the dc2 shares the bed pan with the eg6, and I know that with he right set Up in the rear of a dc2 and oversteer can be gotten rid of its the easyest of them all to get rid off, under steer is the tricky one! Now the ek has always been my favourite but I know the the sub frame out of a dc2 is better than that in the em as it helps the engine to sit slightly lower and further back in the car which as you probably know helps with lowering g the centre of gravity etc, I need to do more digging but you have straight away popped a question for me to look up lol cheers lad
 
BL!TZ said:
If you're gonna go for an extreme engine setup then I'd say stick to an EK then at least the vast majority of the car you already know inside out. Plus EK parts are more readily available on the 2nd hand market.

Perhaps do a season or two in a civic then aim for a teg once you've got a bullet proof engine setup and just swap it all over.
Click to expand...

That's def something I have though about as I have seen mike hidden in his dc5 in tin tops withy the back end hanging off it lol don't fancy looking for parts for that, I was going to do it in a 182 as I have a 182 track car at the min but Honda is in my blood and I mss vtec lol, and yeah that's the he's thing once I te my power train sorted I can just swap it around, I should be able to do everything myself and not out Sorce much if anything hopefully well thats the plan like
 
Some good advice already mentioned, DC & EK both handle very well, DC is a touch more tail happy on the limit, if you have not driven one in anger, best stick to what your comfortable with for racing.
As for power, forget it for the first year, stick with the B16 until you have had a proper go at it, strip it right down, weight is key, as Freaky points out, if you must throw money around, get some top suspension and brakes, and do the test day before to gain a balance for the lower power.
 
haitch said:
Some good advice already mentioned, DC & EK both handle very well, DC is a touch more tail happy on the limit, if you have not driven one in anger, best stick to what your comfortable with for racing.
As for power, forget it for the first year, stick with the B16 until you have had a proper go at it, strip it right down, weight is key, as Freaky points out, if you must throw money around, get some top suspension and brakes, and do the test day before to gain a balance for the lower power.
Click to expand...

Ya def lads thats why I put it up, will help stuff I has missed or I dont want to listen to in my own head lol the voice of reason!! lol

Problem I have is im an engineer and I dont like "just leaving things" :p,

I knew the DC2 was a little frisky as had one step out on me on the road, but I can tune the suspension to get rid of that,

I def agree with what you and freaky are saying, my plan was to have a well sorted chassis and then sort the powertrain out, as thats my speciality, reliability in racing is everything but im willing to compromise and do a little R&D in the first year maybe, even though you are entirely right in what ye are saying lol!
 
FreakyParts said:
I would spend a season getting used to the whole racing experience rather than trying to build the most powerful spec car you can afford. Spend the money on handling and tuition this year, as you're not going to jump in the car and win straight off if you've not done any racing before.
I've done the same this season, shelled out on head skims, valve lapping etc to get as much out of the engine as possible, it lasted 1 round (2 races). I stuck a standard engine in and spent the time setting the car up properly - not to book, but to similar settings other drivers in the paddock were running.
Then spent more time in the car. I found spending the money on the practice day before the race weekend cut my laptimes on tracks I hadn't driven by around 10 seconds. It also meant I wasn't using the qualifying as a practice session and could be straight on the pace.

The first season is more about learning than smashing lap records. Yes you might not have the quickest car out there, but there's no point having a quick car if the nut behind the wheel can't drive it and the car keeps breaking down because it's built to within an inch of blowing :)

You'll have as much fun battling with someone who's evenly matched with you mid-pack than fending off the leaders who've probably been racing for the last 10 years and push you into a stupid mistake.
Click to expand...

^^^
Best advice
 
Ramvtec said:
100% agree just got to convince myself or come to a compromise lol
Click to expand...

Lol :D
I built an MX150R and ran it in the Ma5daracing championship. 130bhp, 815kg was a lot of fun.
In identical cars, set up the same way, I was at the start of the season on average 10-12 seconds a lap slower, at the end of the season I was around 2-3 seconds a lap slower. The difference is experience. I was racing in my first ever competitive races, I was competing against guys who have 10-15 years under their belts.
I've spent the last 10 years doing 5 or 6 trackdays a year in various different cars but nothing comes close to sitting on that grid waiting for the lights to go out!!
If you spend the money on big power, it's just going to cost more when it blows, or you hit the wall faster :lol:
 
FreakyParts said:
Lol :D
I built an MX150R and ran it in the Ma5daracing championship. 130bhp, 815kg was a lot of fun.
In identical cars, set up the same way, I was at the start of the season on average 10-12 seconds a lap slower, at the end of the season I was around 2-3 seconds a lap slower. The difference is experience. I was racing in my first ever competitive races, I was competing against guys who have 10-15 years under their belts.
I've spent the last 10 years doing 5 or 6 trackdays a year in various different cars but nothing comes close to sitting on that grid waiting for the lights to go out!!
If you spend the money on big power, it's just going to cost more when it blows, or you hit the wall faster :lol:
Click to expand...

lol you must know tom roche then as he wins in mazdas mostly all the time! I done some work on his cra for him and help engineer on it for him back in the day when I was in uni.

ya you couldnt be more right in what you are saying just need to convince myself that to lol
 
Yeah, I know Tom :) Bought a few bits from his big black bus of junk when I bent the steering rack at Anglesey in a small bump ;)
 
FreakyParts said:
Yeah, I know Tom :) Bought a few bits from his big black bus of junk when I bent the steering rack at Anglesey in a small bump ;)
Click to expand...

Lol I remember when he got that bus in the beginning it wasn't always black! Lol you racing hondas at all now?
 
Not sure how much you looked into it but there's quite a lot of costs in racing (esp your first year) before you even look at performance. My advice would be to try and budget it out and leave a bit in reserve else you stand a good chance of adding yourself to the long list of people who spend all their money building a killer car and then can't afford the money or risk to get it on the grid.

Come along to Donny on the 20/21 October if you can. Anyone there will be more than happy to show you around their cars and spare a bit of time for a chat if you're interested in joining next year.
 
clockwoRk said:
Not sure how much you looked into it but there's quite a lot of costs in racing (esp your first year) before you even look at performance. My advice would be to try and budget it out and leave a bit in reserve else you stand a good chance of adding yourself to the long list of people who spend all their money building a killer car and then can't afford the money or risk to get it on the grid.

Come along to Donny on the 20/21 October if you can. Anyone there will be more than happy to show you around their cars and spare a bit of time for a chat if you're interested in joining next year.
Click to expand...

Ya I def agree, I have built some engines before that have been pretty successful in races so will be fine powertrain wise, I have decided I'm gonna build an ek now, so wath this space, prob gonna race in tin tops next year mid season at the latest if I go over on the build, for first season I think i will develop an b18 to a reasonable build then if thats not enough or I have to push it to much I will build a k20, I am a cal engineer in jaguar landrover so will map it myself and will look to develop these engines to sell!

Have a guy that works in chassis and dynamics at jaguar landrover so will develop a good chassis aswell fingers crossed :)
 
PS been thinkin the last days should I bother with an ek9 shell as its gonna be caged etc, might just use and ek shell?
 
Ek or ej shell without sunroof if it's gunna be caged and seam welded then no point in buying a ek9 shell unless u pick one up cheap enough, I'm currently building a Jordan to be a track car ATM and recommended a custom cages roll cage if your going to build it properly
 
i was in your boat aswell mate,bought a clean dc2,fully built the b18c high comp,new everything costs me thousands and took it to track days,best fun ever and altho i need to adjust settings mine isnt tail happy hardly at all on the limit the way it is. i say go for a teg there cheap and you have alot of the key parts there to build on in the future :)p.s if your going for racing get some mental brakes i cooked my 1st set and had to upgrade lol
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top