Fully 'built' engines..

[Gee]

Hi guys,

I've moved from a fully forged turbo setup to an EK9 and was wondering about fully built motors.

When forging an engine, I always thought the main purpose of dropping in forged pistons and rods was to ensure that the engine could handle extra boost pressure which in turn creates extra power.

Now then it comes to fully built N/A motors, how exactly does replacing the pistons etc create more power?

I've read about certain brand of pistons being able to create more power than another brand. Is this due to diameter/weight or what?

I understand how changing headers/exhausts/cams create more power, but unsure on the rest.

I am toying with the idea of a built B18C depending on cost. How much roughtly would a basic built B18C cost compared to the cost of a K20 conversion and what sort of hp/torque are we talking compared to a K20?

Any help appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[blinx9900]

Forged pistons in an NA car usually are lighter/stronger and raise compression

As far as cost difference in building the two Engines K is going to cost more, by how much depends on your area. It would be more cost effective to build a b18c for turbo in my opinion. Or even just build a b16a shortblock and swap it out for your b16b block so you have a b16b head on a b16a block, thats what both I and user ek9turbo have done and we are both VERY happy and our cars are VERY fast.

 

[Gee]

I want to keep the EK9 N/A I think..

I know if done properly, a turbo setup should be just as reliable, but had so much trouble with my previous turbo car it has put me off.

From what I have read it will take a lot maintenance and checking over?

I know how things work, but I'm no mechanic..so it becomes a pain for me when little things go wrong. Don't have a drive or garage to work on the car.

Because of all the mistakes and trouble I have had, I really want things to be as hassle free as possible with this car with it being my daily drive.

I don't know much about compression unfortunately, so will do some googling later!

 

[blinx9900]

Well here is how it works, the more power your car makes the more maintenance it will require, the more you will want to check it over from time to time. It does not matter if it is NA or Turbo. But if you want to stay NA then the K is going to be your best option if you have the $$$ intake, header, exhaust and a good tune will net you 250bhp easy!!

 

[Gee]

Well here is how it works, the more power your car makes the more maintenance it will require, the more you will want to check it over from time to time. It does not matter if it is NA or Turbo. But if you want to stay NA then the K is going to be your best option if you have the $$$ intake, header, exhaust and a good tune will net you 250bhp easy!!

OK, thanks Blinx. I understand about the maintenance..becomes more of an issue when its a daily

With header/intake/cams/muffler/ + tune, what sort of HP are we looking at on a B18C without opening it up?

 

[EK9dan]

Gee high comp engine will increase power ideal for NA build but on turbo it's dangerous so people will put low comp pistons to handle boost.

 

[Gee]

Gee high comp engine will increase power ideal for NA build but on turbo it's dangerous so people will put low comp pistons to handle boost.

Cool.

Any negative effects of raising the compression on a N/A motor or things to keep in mind?

You'll need a good RON fuel to handle the raised compression? I only use V-Power and would also buy a mappable ECU for a map also.

 

[blinx9900]

OK, thanks Blinx. I understand about the maintenance..becomes more of an issue when its a daily

With header/intake/cams/muffler/ + tune, what sort of HP are we looking at on a B18C without opening it up?

If you are referring to the B18c ITR engine i would say about 215bhp

Cool.

Any negative effects of raising the compression on a N/A motor or things to keep in mind?

You will need to have it mapped and use proper fuel. Raising compression too high can get tricky, at some point you will have to start measuring piston to valve clearance and the higher your compression ratio is the more precise the tuning has to be.

 

[EK9turbo]

Cool.

Any negative effects of raising the compression on a N/A motor or things to keep in mind?

You'll need a good RON fuel to handle the raised compression? I only use V-Power and would also buy a mappable ECU for a map also.

If you have ported pistons with the little holes in the top then you will wear the top ring real fast.

You can run upto around 13:1 on our fuel. a top setup will net you around 240whp dynojet. Build quality, parts used and tuning quality is really important.

As the saying goes, fast-cheap-reliable. pick two, and it wont be the other.


Turbo B16a setups are definitely street KING. Maintenance is as Blinx says. But its really not that bad. just 3000miles enigne oil, gbox oil service along with maintenance checks.

When it comes to the build alot of experience in orientation and layout of various systems prevents trivial problems that can lead to big problems.

 

[Gee]

If you are referring to the B18c ITR engine i would say about 215bhp

At the fly?

Thanks for the input so far everybody.

 

[blinx9900]

At the fly?

Thanks for the input so far everybody.

bhp is at the flywheel. I usually speak in terms of whp but everybody on this forum seems to use bhp so thats what i use here, but if you want to know in terms of whp a K with i/h/e/tune will make about 220whp and a b18c will make about 185whp with the same mods.

 

[EK9dan]

bhp is at the flywheel. I usually speak in terms of whp but everybody on this forum seems to use bhp so thats what i use here, but if you want to know in terms of whp a K with i/h/e/tune will make about 220whp and a b18c will make about 185whp with the same mods.

Wow, that is a great deal if you think. Why such a difference mate concidering they have same power from factory of 197bhp found in the jdm ITR & UKDM ep3?

 

[RagingAngel]

Kseries responds to mods and ecu mapping much better than the B.

 

[Gee]

Ahh man..K20 sounds great.

What HP we talking about with a built B18C?

 

[blinx9900]

Kseries responds to mods and ecu mapping much better than the B.

exactly!

Wow, that is a great deal if you think. Why such a difference mate concidering they have same power from factory of 197bhp found in the jdm ITR & UKDM ep3?

JDM k20 DC5 engine makes 220bhp jdm b18 ITR makes 197bhp, those are the engines i based my guesstimate on.

Ahh man..K20 sounds great.

What HP we talking about with a built B18C?

Im sorry what do you mean by built? K20 is cool, i still personally don't like it though, i cant stand the gear box.

 

[Gee]

I meant forged internals etc etc.

Sorry, I thought that was the terminology around here.

 

[blinx9900]

I meant forged internals etc etc.

Sorry, I thought that was the terminology around here.

Thats really too vague of a question, pistons and rods a lone usually don't add power unless your raising compression adding cams, porting the head etc etc etc and then every combination is going to be different.

 

[Gee]

Thats really too vague of a question, pistons and rods a lone usually don't add power unless your raising compression adding cams, porting the head etc etc etc and then every combination is going to be different.

Cool, I see.

This was the topic of the thread really, how to gain more power with an engines due to internal modification and work.

I have not got my head around it (

I know very little about N/A tuning, just the usual basics.

 

[blinx9900]

Cool, I see.

This was the topic of the thread really, how to gain more power with an engines due to internal modification and work.

I have not got my head around it (

I know very little about N/A tuning, just the usual basics.

Basically its all about improving efficiency, raising compression, getting larger cams, porting the head, tuning, etc... obviously you would want a good header and exhaust system and a nice intake and intake manifold.