Camber Kits on OEM EK9 Suspension?
- Thread starter rvm
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only if you need to adjust your camber
For example I want to go to the track, and I want to know if I adjust the camber running a stock ek9 civic suspension, does it makes any difference at all?
blinx9900
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more camber generally does increase handling, but it also increases tire wear, i would get stickier tires before i got a camber kit since your suspension is stock.
but if you lower the car and do some other suspension mods then your camber may be all wrong so then you get a camber kit to set it up properly so its even on both sides and you have the amount of camber you want.
but if you lower the car and do some other suspension mods then your camber may be all wrong so then you get a camber kit to set it up properly so its even on both sides and you have the amount of camber you want.
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RVM you opened a real can of worms with this one!
I recall you said you already have very sticky bridgstone tires right? So the grippy tire requirement is out out of the way. You also have a dual duty (track & street) car right now, so you don't want to set your car to track settings always or street settings all the time, (unless you dont do much street driving)
The outer suspension goes into compression (or bump) during cornering and due to body roll along with the suspension geometry the the outside tire will gain positive camber. When the outside wheels gain positive camber there is more tire wear and less cornering force due to a lesser contact patch. The less body roll you have the less posive camber you have, so stiffer springs will help (bigger anti-roll bars help but the ek9 already has large ones).
Dialing in some static negative camber ( recommended up to -3 degrees for track driving) will make up for that positive camber during cornering, and this is why people say "more camber equals better handling". Like I said reducing body roll through stiffer springs and anti roll bars will reduce the amount of roll during conering, hence the less negative camber you have to dial in to compensate for it. But -camber it has to be setup correctly. The best way to figure out what camber settings to use for your track and your driving is to get a tire pyrometer (measures tire temps) and drive the car at whatever camber setting, and then measure tire tempuratures. When you have dialed in the perfect negative camber the temps will be consistent across the tire, with the inside of the tire 5-10 degrees'F hotter. And you will want a bubble or electonic angle finder so you can measure and repeat that camber setting.
When you have a quality pyrometer and the tire pressures are where you want them, measure the tires after a hard run in this order - Counter clockwise around the car starting at the right front tire, measuring 3 temps starting at the outside tread in. Like this-
.....................^-front of car, from above
10-11-12 ----------------3--2--1
....../ -----------------------/
....../------------------------/
....../------------------------/
....../------------------------/
7--8--9------------------6--5--4
More static negative camber will however reduce you launces and braking performance, along with more inside tire wear, so you have to find a good balance and with stiffer springs and roll bars you the less negative camber you have to dial in. For street driving its not recommended to go over -1 degrees negative camber, because your just doing mostly striaght driving and not just hard cornering.
This is just a small window into camber adjustments for track driving, the whole topic of suspension tuning is more properly discussed in an entire book, its such a large subject.
I recall you said you already have very sticky bridgstone tires right? So the grippy tire requirement is out out of the way. You also have a dual duty (track & street) car right now, so you don't want to set your car to track settings always or street settings all the time, (unless you dont do much street driving)
The outer suspension goes into compression (or bump) during cornering and due to body roll along with the suspension geometry the the outside tire will gain positive camber. When the outside wheels gain positive camber there is more tire wear and less cornering force due to a lesser contact patch. The less body roll you have the less posive camber you have, so stiffer springs will help (bigger anti-roll bars help but the ek9 already has large ones).
Dialing in some static negative camber ( recommended up to -3 degrees for track driving) will make up for that positive camber during cornering, and this is why people say "more camber equals better handling". Like I said reducing body roll through stiffer springs and anti roll bars will reduce the amount of roll during conering, hence the less negative camber you have to dial in to compensate for it. But -camber it has to be setup correctly. The best way to figure out what camber settings to use for your track and your driving is to get a tire pyrometer (measures tire temps) and drive the car at whatever camber setting, and then measure tire tempuratures. When you have dialed in the perfect negative camber the temps will be consistent across the tire, with the inside of the tire 5-10 degrees'F hotter. And you will want a bubble or electonic angle finder so you can measure and repeat that camber setting.
When you have a quality pyrometer and the tire pressures are where you want them, measure the tires after a hard run in this order - Counter clockwise around the car starting at the right front tire, measuring 3 temps starting at the outside tread in. Like this-
.....................^-front of car, from above
10-11-12 ----------------3--2--1
....../ -----------------------/
....../------------------------/
....../------------------------/
....../------------------------/
7--8--9------------------6--5--4
More static negative camber will however reduce you launces and braking performance, along with more inside tire wear, so you have to find a good balance and with stiffer springs and roll bars you the less negative camber you have to dial in. For street driving its not recommended to go over -1 degrees negative camber, because your just doing mostly striaght driving and not just hard cornering.
This is just a small window into camber adjustments for track driving, the whole topic of suspension tuning is more properly discussed in an entire book, its such a large subject.
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Dino-Spumoni great post, You solved me a lot of questions, I think that would be my next mod, a front / rear camber kit!
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Camber kits! I recommend SPC, they deal with a lot of camber kits for different makes and have a great reputation. I purchased the SPC front camber kit, which has an aluminum arm to make up for the added weight of the adjustment mechanisms/bolts, making it the same weight as stock. It also has a better 1 giant nut design vs. the standard ingalls or skunk 2 camber kits which use 4 allen key bolts to set the camber. The best part is it has caster adjustment as well, other camber kits dont. They sell the steel front camber/caster kit for a little cheaper, but its a little heavier than the aluminum armed one. So far I've had these for 9 months, no slipping of the adjustment mechanism, and perfect fitment during instalation.
For the rear I recommend SPC as well, but the rear camber kits dont really change much between companys, its such a simple design.
Rear.
For the rear I recommend SPC as well, but the rear camber kits dont really change much between companys, its such a simple design.
Rear.
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Camber kits! I recommend SPC, they deal with a lot of camber kits for different makes and have a great reputation. I purchased the SPC front camber kit, which has an aluminum arm to make up for the added weight of the adjustment mechanisms/bolts, making it the same weight as stock. It also has a better 1 giant nut design vs. the standard ingalls or skunk 2 camber kits which use 4 allen key bolts to set the camber. The best part is it has caster adjustment as well, other camber kits dont. They sell the steel front camber/caster kit for a little cheaper, but its a little heavier than the aluminum armed one. So far I've had these for 9 months, no slipping of the adjustment mechanism, and perfect fitment during instalation.
For the rear I recommend SPC as well, but the rear camber kits dont really change much between companys, its such a simple design.
Rear.
Whats the retail price of this? Where can I buy them ?
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I got mine from Import Auto Performance in orlando florida. The front arms I got from them on ebay for $300, which is a lot for a camber kit, but not a lot for the best engineered aluminum front camber and caster kit.
The rears I ordered directly from them for $115, which is comparable to other company's prices, I just like SPC.
The rears I ordered directly from them for $115, which is comparable to other company's prices, I just like SPC.
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Nice!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SPC-...goryZ33581QQihZ019QQitemZ8054261043QQtcZphoto
I'm going to buy this camber!
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Yep, thats it! I was talking to one of the engineers @ spc and he pointed out something cool. See how where the ball joint mounts/ajdustment mechanism plate (ebay auction pic), its tilted down at an angle different from the main part of the arm? Thats so that the stock honda geometry and ball joint angle is not changed as much when you lower the car beyond stock. Now thats some thought going into a part. And with the one large locking nut holding your adjustment down its sure not to slip like other camber kits, the directions say torque it to 135 ft/lbs! Thats not going anywhere.
Here is an installation writeup and discussion page.
http://www.jdmuniverse.com/forums/view.php?pg=egekdccamber
He mentions that with negative camber braking and acceleration will be sacraficed, but remember he is referring to street only cars, so the statement is true. When you set up your camber settings you can dial in negative camber because your actually doing track driving. The steel SPC camber/caster arm is shown here, and notice in the installed picture the ball joint boot is all wobbly and screwed up?
When you install yours you don't want that, make the boot fold down like shown on my installed pictures.
Here is an installation writeup and discussion page.
http://www.jdmuniverse.com/forums/view.php?pg=egekdccamber
He mentions that with negative camber braking and acceleration will be sacraficed, but remember he is referring to street only cars, so the statement is true. When you set up your camber settings you can dial in negative camber because your actually doing track driving. The steel SPC camber/caster arm is shown here, and notice in the installed picture the ball joint boot is all wobbly and screwed up?
When you install yours you don't want that, make the boot fold down like shown on my installed pictures.
good info, that spc front kit is something ive been looking at for last few weeks as looks like 1 of best front kits ive seen but they are expensive (worth it though), im runnin omnipower fronts (4 nut design) and will hold my hands up and admit its not that great
not many people go as far as changing caster but increasing caster will only improve handling further
not many people go as far as changing caster but increasing caster will only improve handling further
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Iceman caster adjustments can improve performance at the track if done correctly; don't go all willy nilly with caster adjustments or any suspension settings for that matter.
The spc guy claimed the aluminum arms were lighter than stock, but I found that they were about the same. The steel spc arms are probably a pound heavier, SPC could give you an exact quote if you call or email them. However, the steel spc arms have a different way to adjust caster, they have a variable rate caster adjustment slider, while the aluminum has multiple different settings on a brass ring adjustment.
Its your decision, the aluminum has very easy to track caster adjustments, while the steel's caster can be fine tuned very slightly more and is less easy to keep track of.
The spc guy claimed the aluminum arms were lighter than stock, but I found that they were about the same. The steel spc arms are probably a pound heavier, SPC could give you an exact quote if you call or email them. However, the steel spc arms have a different way to adjust caster, they have a variable rate caster adjustment slider, while the aluminum has multiple different settings on a brass ring adjustment.
Its your decision, the aluminum has very easy to track caster adjustments, while the steel's caster can be fine tuned very slightly more and is less easy to keep track of.
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blinx9900
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bad camber wears your tires, bad toe will destroy your tires
and rvm yes we do sell camber kits, skunk2, progress, neuspeed, and many others
blinx9900
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you mean SPC?
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