on-going idle concerns

[aRc]

ok guys, i'm hoping someone can help me here. i should have wrote about this a good while ago but due to not having a lot of spare funds, have put this off, but could now get this looked at...

i bought my ek9 in June last year and it ran beautifully, it had a dyno run following a mechanical inspection and all was fine with it. in September, before the winter came, i decided to take it in for a full service at a Honda specialist with a great reputation. The car was approaching 90k miles so it was decided that the valve clearance would be checked and transmission fluid would be changed along with oil change, oil filter and spark plugs. I waited with the car and it took all day.

I got in my car to drive it home so started the engine, whilst adjusting the seat etc, and the engine cut out. i started it back up again just for it to cut out again so i started it again and it was struggling to idle so i gave it a rev only for the revs to come back down and car to cut out again... i went back into the garage and two mechanics came out and it did the same for them. after a few goes of revving it, with the bonnet open, they decided to take it into the garage and closed the roller shutter. after them spending half an hour to an hour on it with it just continually cutting out, they disconnected the plug on my throttle body and the engine ran, without cutting out, for the first time. it was the only way they could make it run. due to the time, they sent me on my way and asked me to come back the following day... the drive home was heartbreaking as the car stunk of petrol, backfired, cut out and the passenger footwell became worryingly hot. this combined with the excessive fuel consumption was scary stuff.

anyway, i went back the following day and they spent another six hours on it, retracing all their actions from the day before and they found nothing to be out of ordinary. they pulled the car out of the garage and the owner took the car for a spin. he came back to say it ran fine as the vtec engaged, which wouldn't happen if the car was not running correctly. he said is wasn't perfect but there was nothing else they could do as they had checked all they had touched, although admitted it wasn't the same as it was prior to them having it. if i was to find the petrol consumption didn't return to how it was etc, then to return.

the car has ran ok since, except that when the engine is not fully warm, the car wants to stall as the idle becomes very weak. this means revving it at lights and junctions as well as when breaking or it cuts out. i have since been back to the garage, for the replacement of belts, and the car has ran fine apart from the hesitant idle.

as said, i have not had the money to have this investigated since but now that i do, i wonder if the current condition of the car could be improved. i have read all the threads and searched 'idle' so have read the IACV posts, including the 'sticky', so think this maybe the problem. however, before going out and getting one, i was wondering if anyone had any suggestions?

we've had a few throttle body problems in the past here with our honda's as my mum's eg4 had one replaced as that kept over heating so any comments would be greatly appreciated.

apologies this is a long post so thanks for reading!!

 

[Dipesh]

If the valve clearances are tight, it can cause it to run really funny.

I had one valve that was slight too tight and that stopped my car from idling when warm.

Just a thought, I'm sure someone will be along with more info.

 

[Vtec6000]

Strange how it came about after they worked on the car... Have you a friend who you could borrow a IACV off to give it a try

 

[aRc]

If the valve clearances are tight, it can cause it to run really funny.
I had one valve that was slight too tight and that stopped my car from idling when warm.
Just a thought, I'm sure someone will be along with more info.

thanks for the response Dipesh, much appreciated. I wouldn't have thought it was this because they double checked all they had initially done - including the valve clearances - so if it was this, would expected this to have been found on their investigation into the problems. you never know though so i'll bear this in mind. thanks again.

Strange how it came about after they worked on the car... Have you a friend who you could borrow a IACV off to give it a try

it is strange how it only came about after being messed with, it's as though they unsettled something. my mum has a ek4 but having read the 'sticky', they appear to be different units. i don't know anyone with an ek9 to swap with but thanks for the response and taking time to read it all!! i was hoping you'd read it as you've made some good comments on here! i just don't know what to try to correct it or whether to leave it alone, in case it gets worse, as it runs perfectly once it's warmed up.

 

[Vtec6000]

What rpm is engine at when hot at idle? There is a good chance the EK4 idle control valve will work on your ek9.

 

[ntahlerz]

what ecu r u running?stock?or obd1?i've encountered an idling problem.just recently found out that some capasitor n circuit in the ecu that control idle was burnt.didn't notice at first because it was not visible.my tuner fix the ecu and it is fine again..hope this helps.

 

[JIMBOB-EK9]

Did you actually see them dubble check everything they did & didnt just say they had????

This really pi**ies me off & it ant even my car!
I know were you took it & they do have a very good rep, but i have heard a few horror stories too!

TBH mate i would not have accepted my car back untill it was how i brought to them! (even if it ment bringing trading standards in, to back me up.)

But that is not going to help you out now! (sorry for my rant()

I have a spare IACV you could try mate, but they should not have been anywere near that really!

As Vtec6000 as asked what does it idle at when up to temp???
Will the car not start without giving it some gas???
Will it not even try & idle when you very first start the car???

You are more than welcome to drive through to me mate & i will have a look for you!

 

[Rich777]

What a pain in the ass... Man you must have a long temper, i would of gone crazy and threw the keys back at them. Get them to re-check the valve clearences, it does sound like a IAVC issue though. Did they change the coolant ? Your not getting any strange noises from the engine are you ?

 

[aRc]

Thanks for the responses guys, i really appreciate the advice...

What rpm is engine at when hot at idle? There is a good chance the EK4 idle control valve will work on your ek9.

I was watching the car's idle today having read this and it seems to be about 1150 when first started on a cold engine and then seems to settle around 800 once fully warm at lights etc. this does vary but i'd say that's the average. is this ok/ normal?!

what ecu r u running?stock?or obd1?i've encountered an idling problem.just recently found out that some capasitor n circuit in the ecu that control idle was burnt.didn't notice at first because it was not visible.my tuner fix the ecu and it is fine again..hope this helps.

it's just the standard ecu but it's funny you sound mention this as the garage did advise me that if i go for a programmable ecu in the future, they could amend the idle to make the problem go away, or in other words, hide the problem but this obviously isn't the answer.

Did you actually see them dubble check everything they did & didnt just say they had????

I just took their word for it mate as they closed the garage door behind them but i could hear them struggling to keep the car running from outside the garage! it was their young mechanic who did the initial work, which took a full day. The checks then took half a day with both mechanic and boss working on it. it was then they said that they'd done all they could!!

This really pi**ies me off & it ant even my car!
I know were you took it & they do have a very good rep, but i have heard a few horror stories too!
TBH mate i would not have accepted my car back untill it was how i brought to them! (even if it ment bringing trading standards in, to back me up.)
But that is not going to help you out now! (sorry for my rant()

haha! i know what you mean, it is frustrating but in the end, i was was just glad to have it back and running again as the drive home after the first day was devastating!!

I have a spare IACV you could try mate, but they should not have been anywere near that really!

That's what i was thinking too, and exactly what they said, which is why they couldn't quickly trace it. i think they just unsettled something by accident but i would now like it running properly as i'm getting tired having to sit revving it at lights etc before it warms up! i always get the fear it's not going to start again when it does cut out but up to now, it's not let me down!!

As Vtec6000 as asked what does it idle at when up to temp???
Will the car not start without giving it some gas???
Will it not even try & idle when you very first start the car???

as above, it idles at about 1150 from cold and 800 when warm.
it starts fine, every single time without fail, but where i live, i reverse out of the drive and onto the road before moving forward, and as soon as it begins moving, it wants to cut out/ stall, so have to keep revving it as i'm slowly go backwards and then when i brake to slow the reverse, it always tries to stall, but i have to continue to rev it. i then set off and all is fine until i reach a t-junction, where i drop down the gears to both brake and keep up some revs but as i take my foot off the accelerator and use the brake and clutch to stop, i have to keep revving or it will just cut out! i'm then on a good b-road so by the time i next have to slow up, it's all warm and 'ticks over' fine!

What a pain in the ass... Man you must have a long temper, i would of gone crazy and threw the keys back at them. Get them to re-check the valve clearences, it does sound like a IAVC issue though. Did they change the coolant ? Your not getting any strange noises from the engine are you ?

i do have a good temper, too good at times! as said, i was just glad for it to get it back in one piece after what had happened!!
there are no strange engine noises, thank god, and i'm not too sure about the coolant as nothing's mentioned on the invoice etc. it's fine once it's up and running but it's just whilst it's cold. it's so strange, it really is!

Anyway guys, i'm not too sure where to take this next as since writing this it has become more and more apparent i need to get it sorted as every morning this week it's tried to stall on the drive before pulling away and also at some lights on the way home so know that sooner or later something bad is going to happen unless i act upon it! i can't thank vtec6000 enough for sending me some PM's on the topic but without having done much work on any cars before, i am very hesitant to make things even worse than they already are with it!

i've been offered a new throttle body and IACV at a fair price so am thinking of just 'biting the bullet' and take a gamble on replacing the whole lot. what do you all reckon? do the above symptoms all seem to point towards the IACV? if so, it looks like i'll have to renew it.

thanks again for all the help

 

[Vtec6000]

I'd try removing the IACV and cleaning it, its pretty easy to do even for someone that hasn't done much work on cars before. Check out this thread for a guide to doing it and feel free to PM me if you need some help
http://www.ek9.org/forum/engine/20020-idle-problem-iacv-faulty.html

 

[JIMBOB-EK9]

Anyway guys, i'm not too sure where to take this next as since writing this it has become more and more apparent i need to get it sorted as every morning this week it's tried to stall on the drive before pulling away and also at some lights on the way home so know that sooner or later something bad is going to happen unless i act upon it! i can't thank vtec6000 enough for sending me some PM's on the topic but without having done much work on any cars before, i am very hesitant to make things even worse than they already are with it!

i've been offered a new throttle body and IACV at a fair price so am thinking of just 'biting the bullet' and take a gamble on replacing the whole lot. what do you all reckon? do the above symptoms all seem to point towards the IACV? if so, it looks like i'll have to renew it.

thanks again for all the help

I wouldnt leave it mate, leaving things always leads to more probs down the line in my experince!

If your not confident enough to try it your self then as said drive over to me & i will do it for you!
I dont want any money for doing so, just trying to help you out mate as we have met befor & you are a really sound lad!

Dont buy them items mate as i have both these so we can try them out without having to spend any money!

I have never been beaten by an EK9 befor, so i am sure i can so this for you mate! lol

You have my number & if you dont anymore just give me a PM & ill send it you agen!

 

[aRc]

I'd try removing the IACV and cleaning it, its pretty easy to do even for someone that hasn't done much work on cars before. Check out this thread for a guide to doing it and feel free to PM me if you need some help
http://www.ek9.org/forum/engine/20020-idle-problem-iacv-faulty.html

Thanks again Vtec6000, i can't thank you enough for your help. i'll either have a go at this myself or ask Jimbob to kindly have a play as the following post to yours! thanks again and i'll let you know how it goes!!

 

[aRc]

If your not confident enough to try it your self then as said drive over to me & i will do it for you!

I have never been beaten by an EK9 befor, so i am sure i can so this for you mate! lol

Mr. Jimbob, you have PM!!

 

[Vtec6000]

Good luck with it and hope you get to the bottom of it

 

[aRc]

whilst i was on the phone to the local Honda dealer for a few parts - distributor cap and rotor arm plus new bonnet seal - we got chatting and they recommended a different garage to me. it was an hours drive or so away but well worth it!

i took a print out of this thread with me and they gave the car a full inspection to try and get to the bottom of the problem. i left them working on the car whilst speaking to a few other customers there before heading into the local town.

on coming back, they went through everything they had found including the IACV to be very dirty, so you would have all been right with your advice, but they then came across the following:

they replaced these with a full set of used ep3 one's that they had lying around and told me they would pretty much guarantee this would be the problem. they were pretty shocked the initial garage had installed these but, as they weren't bitchy about anyone else's work, they said this could have happened by accident i.e. the set could have been packaged wrong etc.
however, i know the garage knew what they had done as they apparently double-checked everything they had done on the initial service!

anyway, the car seems to be running ok since getting it looked at *touch wood* so is hopefully cured! i won't be going back to the initial garage in a hurry!! it's more than likely that they didn't have enough of the correct spark plugs in and thought they'd be ok but, if that was the case, then they should have just said!!

i don't know too much about spark plugs but it seems the two 35's are fine for the car but the 40's are typically used on turbo charged cars and take longer to heat up, hence my problems when the car was cold!

i will let you all know if it goes bad again but hopefully the car is now all ok again!

thanks for everyone's help on here, i just thought i'd write this to let you know what it could be for someone else in the future!!

 

[Vtec6000]

Glad you got it sorted mate

 

[R883]

I would take it back to the original garage asnd let them know !!!

They should of checked that !!