Brake fade...


DBMatt

K20 EK9 - VTEC Addict
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
672
Alright guys.

I went for a spin round North Wales today & went up the Horseshoe Pass in the direction from Llangollen towards Ruthin which was a good blast! Of course the weather was baking hot.

Before I delve into the problem, my brake setup is as follows -

EBC Yellowstuff pads all round
Stoptech Powerslot grooved discs all round
Goodridge braided lines all round
DOT4 brake fluid only a few months old.

Basically, I was braking hard into corners & using engine braking with heel-toe to slow down then accelerating hard out of the corner and repeating for the next corner. Things we're going great, I was really impressed with the stopping power of the brake setup, especially with a bit of heat in them. After getting about half way along, past the Ponderosa etc. my brakes suddenly turned to ****.

I would press the pedal with the same force as before and get very little response or braking force at all. Even slamming on the pedal didn't do a lot and the pedal was pretty hard to press. Clearly this is some form of brake fade... I think I could faintly smell the brakes through the vents so it's possible I just over did it a bit.. I drove more gently for a mile or so and the performance returned with good stopping power.

I am posting this because I am surprised that after upgrading all my brake setup to "performance" spec, I am still getting brake fade it seems (First time it's happened to me since the upgrades) I thought the Yellowstuff would be fairly resilient to the heat and keep on performing but maybe that isn't the case.

So I just wanted a few opinions from your experiences as to what may have caused this because I feel my setup is more than ample for fast road driving. It worries me a little because I want to do track days with this setup and don't want them fading after 2 laps..
 
Strange allright, just to put it into perspective i drive an EK4 with stock rotors stock calipers and Carbotech pads with motul DOT4 i rarely if ever get brake fade even out on track. Im gonna put it down to the temps and your pads tbh, have tou checked your fluid and pads since?
 
Hmm. I haven't had chance to check as we picked up an Indian takeaway on the way home haha! I will have to look tomorrow, what's to check in terms of the fluid & pads? I'm starting to think the pads may not have bedded in properly or something..?
 
Does your car have ABS? Sounds like the setup maybe interfering with the system if the pedals going hard and not braking.

My EK4 SiR was fine on yellows on track, stuck ds2500 and the sharp initial bite seemed to interfere with the ABS and when I was very harsh on the brakes, I would just get a hard pedal and have to try again with a more gentle foot.

Would be interesting to see if anyone else on here has experienced anything similar. My car wouldn't suffer from brake fade with same ebc pads and motul RBF after 15 min track sessions with two stops from 115 - 30 + 40 each lap.
 
No ABS on my '9, it's a lightweight. I'm just a bit baffled. Well that clearly proves the yellows are fine then. What method did you bed them in? Like drive gently for 500 miles or whatever? I dunno lol.
 
This the first time you've got the pads hot?
With the yellows I found that they needed a good 15min track session then let to cool off abit before they where at there best. They also stink quite abit the first time you heat them up.
 
This the first time you've got the pads hot?
With the yellows I found that they needed a good 15min track session then let to cool off abit before they where at there best. They also stink quite abit the first time you heat them up.

Well, it is the first time I've properly giving them a good kicking and they did smell I'm pretty sure it was te brakes I could smell. Up until now they've just been used mostly with normal driving and the odd squirt here and there. Not continuous heavy braking like today. Perhaps they'll be fine from now on then
 
Yellows, as all performance pads I use, I did 5 stops 100-0, thought they were on fire by the end of it the amount of smoke they produced and that smell. A mellow bed in will have maybe 'glazed' the pads.
 
Yellows, as all performance pads I use, I did 5 stops 100-0, thought they were on fire by the end of it the amount of smoke they produced and that smell. A mellow bed in will have maybe 'glazed' the pads.

Straight away as soon as they're fitted?

Well they've been fine really with a good bite and excellent stopping power when required. At the start of my drive out today and after a mile or so cooling off they were perfect really, just that one part where they faded.

I suppose glazing will just be eliminated with wear though?
 
Yeh as soon as there fitted mate, no messing around on them, well that's my method. You want to burn that 'bed in' layer off the ebc's ASAP.

Ideally you want a good layer of pad debris on the disc from the start. The bed-in procedure can be critical onhow the pad will perform.

All manufactures state different procedures, I did the same with ebc's, ds2500's and my current endless me20's.

Plenty of info on the importance of brake in procedures online, try stoptechs site :nice:.

Also, it sounds like yours are working fine but what brand of brake fluid did you use? High temp stuff?
 
They'll be fine now that you've got them hot the once. This is what I found with new yellows anyway. As kipper said, they smell, smoke and almost catch fire the first time out on track. But will be fine after that.
I actually quite like them for a "middle of the road" pad. Enough to stop you on track but you can fade them with extended hard stints on harsh circuits.
I use carbon Loraine rc6 now with the yellows still holding the rear but if you don't do a lot of track days the yellows are perfect IMO.
 
Ah right, I was doing the whole "break them in gently for a few hundred miles" etc. that's what EBC say on their instructions. I dunno, as Jesse said they should be fine now! They are stopping hard, it's just that they seemed to fade easily. Yes I'll only be doing the odd track day so they should be perfect!

As for the fluid, I think it was some inexpensive rubbish when I think back. Like Car Plan Dot4.. Perhaps that is some of the problem too. I did put Castrol SRF in there one time but it's expensive lol.

Just took the '9 out this morning to a quiet patch of road and broke from 60-10mph about 5-6 times, got the brakes smoking & could smell them. Actually managed a small lock up on the right front once. Absolutely no fade at all, just pure stopping power. Felt like the brakes were going to rip my face off tbh!

Then just let them cool back down on the way back home. Hopefully I've cracked it now..
 
Yeah I'd probably swap the fluid out just to save possible hassle at the track, I use ate superblue dot 4. I think it's the best option when price/performance is an issue. I've never boiled it either so....
 
Right thanks! I'll get some of that in there before I hit the track then, thanks for the advice!
 
Yeah I'd probably swap the fluid out just to save possible hassle at the track, I use ate superblue dot 4. I think it's the best option when price/performance is an issue. I've never boiled it either so....

Yeh good shout, I haven't boiled Motul RBF either after attending 8-10 track days between my cars.
 
Good info cheers, I will change the fluid for sure when I get a chance!
 
On my old ek4 it done the same, I flushed out all old brake fluid and put in some good stuff and it was the same, brake fade is the worst
 
I think it was pads too. But I took it out today again & got them hot, didn't fade at all so it might be problem solved and purely because it was their first time getting so hot.
 
Almost 100% that's your issue mate
 
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